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Author Topic:   Atheism, a dangerous idea?
deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2892 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 63 of 241 (328518)
07-03-2006 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by NosyNed
07-03-2006 10:39 AM


Re: What does this mean?
I know who I pick to have a beer with.
Good thing because if he is one of those fundamentalist bible thumpers he would think it would be wrong to have a beer with you anyway. Although he would probably still do it if he were alone and you promised not to tell his brethern.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by NosyNed, posted 07-03-2006 10:39 AM NosyNed has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by riVeRraT, posted 07-03-2006 11:49 AM deerbreh has replied

  
deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2892 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 82 of 241 (328559)
07-03-2006 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by riVeRraT
07-03-2006 11:43 AM


Re: What does this mean?
Because atheists never change their personality when they drink.
I think it is their personality BEFORE they drink that he was concerned with. There is something unpleasant about being around a person who thinks that the only reason for behaving is because God will smite you if you misbehave.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by riVeRraT, posted 07-03-2006 11:43 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by riVeRraT, posted 07-03-2006 1:48 PM deerbreh has replied

  
deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2892 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 83 of 241 (328563)
07-03-2006 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by riVeRraT
07-03-2006 11:49 AM


Re: What does this mean?
Why does everyone always turn to the word fundementalists?
Isn't it possible to be a Christian on this board and not be one?
The people here promoting YEC ARE fundamentalists. You can't be a YEC without being a fundamentalist. On the other hand, there are plenty of Christians here that are not fundamentalists. When did I say otherwise?

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deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2892 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 86 of 241 (328566)
07-03-2006 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by nwr
07-03-2006 12:40 PM


Re: Moral standards
I put it to you that the difference you see in morality for atheists vs Christians is no more than a figment of your imagination.
Hear hear. I would point out that however one measures morality or lack of it - honesty, cheating on spouse, whatever, you are going to find very little difference between Christians and any other group you want to name. In fact, the divorce rate (arguably an indicator of spouse cheating) is actually higher in the Bible Belt of the U.S. than in other parts of the country.

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deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2892 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 87 of 241 (328567)
07-03-2006 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by riVeRraT
07-03-2006 1:48 PM


Re: What does this mean?
What I can't understand is you, or Ned associating all believers to be like that. That to me is prejudice.
Nowhere did I say that I thought that. Take your strawman elsewhere and knock him down.

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deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2892 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 135 of 241 (328952)
07-05-2006 12:13 PM


Question relating to the OP
I would like to pose a question that relates directly to the question in the OP.
Can anyone cite examples of where atheism has caused any actual harm? Not where it has been incorporated into some other ideology (such as Bolshevism), but where the idea itself that there is no God has caused any harm? And please don't cite Hitler, as I would argue that way more Christians supported Hitler than did atheists. I would argue that Christianity and Islam have caused way more harm than atheism. I am not saying that these religions haven't done just as much (or more) good as harm but that less harm has been done in the name of atheism than in the name of Christianity or Islam.

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by LinearAq, posted 07-05-2006 1:20 PM deerbreh has replied

  
deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2892 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 138 of 241 (328983)
07-05-2006 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by LinearAq
07-05-2006 1:20 PM


Re: Question relating to the OP
Harm in what capacity?
Actual harm. Harm in the sense of the OP - a dangerous idea.
Christians could argue that atheism harms each person that accepts it by pulling them away from Jesus.
This is very weak. If Jesus isn't compelling enough to overcome unbelief he isn't worth following. And if someone doesn't find Jesus compelling, one can't blame atheism. Materialism or narcissicism is much more likely to be the reason, imo.
Each example of Christianity causing "harm" could be catagorized the same way as you catagorized Bolshevism...incorporation into other ideology. Inquisition was just power-hungry politicos misusing the call by Jesus to convert all nations, for example.
But it was the Christian religion that was the source of power that carried out the Crusades and the Inquisition. Bolshevism is not based on atheism, it was based on communism - the "dictatorship of the proletariat", and all of that. Atheism was just a means of trying to wean the people from religion so that their allegiance would then be strictly to Bolshevism.
Have the basic principles of Christianity caused any actual harm?
No, and I am not arguing that they have. I am asking for someone to show me that atheism has caused harm and I am saying that imo a better case could be made that religion has caused harm than atheism. In fact what I believe about religion and harm is that all religions have the potential to be beneficial and it is only when religions are corrupted that they are harmful.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by LinearAq, posted 07-05-2006 1:20 PM LinearAq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by LinearAq, posted 07-05-2006 3:18 PM deerbreh has replied

  
deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2892 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 142 of 241 (329007)
07-05-2006 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by LinearAq
07-05-2006 3:18 PM


Re: Question relating to the OP
Both of those are likely to lead to the belief or professing that there is no God in order for the person to justify such selfishness.
Do you have some evidence for that or is this just an assertion? I don't know many atheists. I do know a lot of Christians. And I can tell you that narcissism and materialism are alive and well in Christiandom. Have you ever watched a TV evangelist do his thing? I have even observed rampant materialism among some Amish. And they sure aren't atheists.
Edited by deerbreh, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by LinearAq, posted 07-06-2006 6:41 AM deerbreh has replied

  
deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2892 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 143 of 241 (329011)
07-05-2006 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by LinearAq
07-05-2006 3:18 PM


Re: Question relating to the OP
The religion is not necessarily fully consistent with the intent of the founder's teachings. There is much evidence that the Inquisition and the Crusades were caused by, at best, misconstrued ideas about Christ's teachings or, at worst, cruelly bigoted sadists and land-grabbing divine-right rulers respectively.
And to what would you attribute these statements by Martin Luther?
Martin Luther writes:
Therefore be on your guard against the Jews, knowing that wherever they have their synagogues, nothing is found but a den of devils in which sheer self-glory, conceit, lies, blasphemy, and defaming of God and men are practiced most maliciously and veheming his eyes on them.
Moreover, they are nothing but thieves and robbers who daily eat no morsel and wear no thread of clothing which they have not stolen and pilfered from us by means of their accursed usury. Thus they live from day to day, together with wife and child, by theft and robbery, as arch-thieves and robbers, in the most impenitent security.
However, they have not acquired a perfect mastery of the art of lying; they lie so clumsily and ineptly that anyone who is just a little observant can easily detect it.
But for us Christians they stand as a terrifying example of God's wrath.
-Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by LinearAq, posted 07-05-2006 3:18 PM LinearAq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by LinearAq, posted 07-05-2006 4:12 PM deerbreh has replied

  
deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2892 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 145 of 241 (329022)
07-05-2006 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by LinearAq
07-05-2006 4:12 PM


Re: Question relating to the OP
I would not attribute them to Jesus The Christ who, by the way, was the founder of Christianity, NOT Martin Luther.
Well yes. But neither is Martin Luther some run of the mill Christian. He even has a denomination named after him as well
as being credited with being one of the founders of the Reformation and author of a popular hymn sung in Protestant churches ("A Mighty Fortress is our God") So it seems that an atheist he is not. And so far I have come up with more examples of where Christianity seems to be more of a motivation for venal behavior than anyone has for atheism. In fact, I don't believe anyone has managed a good example of how atheism leads to behavior that might be considered dangerous to the health and well being of other groups. And note that I have not even gotten into Islam yet, or Northern Ireland, or India/Pakistan.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by LinearAq, posted 07-05-2006 4:12 PM LinearAq has not replied

  
deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2892 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 155 of 241 (329353)
07-06-2006 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by LinearAq
07-06-2006 6:41 AM


Re: Question relating to the OP
My statement was the one of the stock answers from the repertoire of fundementalist answers to tricky questions. I am not prepared to defend it, just making you aware of the thoughts in that community on that particular subject.
No need to make me aware of fundamentalist arguments. I pretty much know them all, being a surviver of fundamentalist indoctrination. Anyway, you might want to be more clear about when you are speaking for yourself and when you are citing fundamentalists.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by LinearAq, posted 07-06-2006 6:41 AM LinearAq has not replied

  
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