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Author Topic:   WIll God save us if we don't believe in the Resurrection?
Brian
Member (Idle past 3036 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 1 of 139 (216419)
06-12-2005 12:24 PM


.

This message has been edited by Brian, 10-14-2005 06:15 AM


Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by dsv, posted 06-12-2005 1:30 PM Brian has responded
 Message 4 by jar, posted 06-12-2005 1:32 PM Brian has responded
 Message 7 by Faith, posted 06-12-2005 3:09 PM Brian has not yet responded
 Message 36 by Mr. Ex Nihilo, posted 06-15-2005 11:26 AM Brian has responded
 Message 85 by rightw/god, posted 06-21-2005 12:41 PM Brian has responded

    
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 2 of 139 (216427)
06-12-2005 12:50 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
  
dsv
Member (Idle past 2800 days)
Posts: 220
From: Secret Underground Hideout
Joined: 08-17-2004


Message 3 of 139 (216433)
06-12-2005 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Brian
06-12-2005 12:24 PM


I believe that the Bible makes it pretty clear that if you do not believe in the Resurrection, then it doesnt matter how nice a person you are, you are going to Hell.

That seems pretty wrong on any level. There are a great many very beautiful people in this world who do not believe in the resurrection, or Jesus for that matter.

Can we be saved from just being nice to each other? Personally, I dont think so because according to Gods Word we have all sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Rom. 3:23 ). And the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord (Rom. 6:23).

What about very good and influential people who pride themselves in their culture and understanding. The Dalai Lama, for example.

Before we knew the global communication infrastructure that we're accustomed to now, there was no way of knowing about the Jesus resurrection supposedly going on in one part of the world at the time. Does that mean all those people went to hell?

There are still areas of Africa where people are born and die without much or any contact with cultures apart from their own. Are they going to hell?

Who holds the responsibility then? Do you have to get to these people before they die and they automatically go to hell or is it their job to somehow "wake up" and realize there was a Jesus who rose from the dead, even though they have absolutely no idea how to even pronounce "Jesus" or that there is a Rome, or a United States, or advanced water filtration systems.

edit for typo

This message has been edited by dsv, Sunday, June 12, 2005 01:39 PM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Brian, posted 06-12-2005 12:24 PM Brian has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Brian, posted 06-12-2005 4:00 PM dsv has responded
 Message 118 by riVeRraT, posted 07-28-2005 7:34 AM dsv has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 4 of 139 (216435)
06-12-2005 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Brian
06-12-2005 12:24 PM


I think we still have too many subjects here, but ...
I'm willing to give it a try.

First, I think that everyone will be saved, Christian and Non-Christian unless they really screw up.

I also disagree with the assement that GOD is cruel.

So, what order would you like to proceed?


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Brian, posted 06-12-2005 12:24 PM Brian has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Brian, posted 06-12-2005 2:04 PM jar has responded

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 3036 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 5 of 139 (216438)
06-12-2005 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by jar
06-12-2005 1:32 PM


Re: I think we still have too many subjects here, but ...
.

This message has been edited by Brian, 10-14-2005 06:17 AM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by jar, posted 06-12-2005 1:32 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by jar, posted 06-12-2005 2:26 PM Brian has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 6 of 139 (216441)
06-12-2005 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Brian
06-12-2005 2:04 PM


Re: I think we still have too many subjects here, but ...
Let's start with screwing up. I believe that the idea of original sin is not something that is the result of the Garden of Eden and some Fall. Rather the story of the Garden of Eden and the Fall are simply the recognition that all mankind is capable of doing both good and bad.

I believe we all screw up regularly and GOD well knows we will. Most screw ups are minor and IMHO will be forgiven. The ones that will be a problem will be those that we persist in committing.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Brian, posted 06-12-2005 2:04 PM Brian has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Brian, posted 06-13-2005 7:15 AM jar has responded

  
Faith
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 139 (216445)
06-12-2005 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Brian
06-12-2005 12:24 PM


Pretty good summary. I look forward to watching you defend it.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Brian, posted 06-12-2005 12:24 PM Brian has not yet responded

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 3036 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 8 of 139 (216458)
06-12-2005 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by dsv
06-12-2005 1:30 PM


.

This message has been edited by Brian, 10-14-2005 06:18 AM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by dsv, posted 06-12-2005 1:30 PM dsv has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by dsv, posted 06-12-2005 4:17 PM Brian has responded

    
dsv
Member (Idle past 2800 days)
Posts: 220
From: Secret Underground Hideout
Joined: 08-17-2004


Message 9 of 139 (216466)
06-12-2005 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Brian
06-12-2005 4:00 PM


This is lunacy! Where are the cameras? Am I being Punk'd?

Think of all the Hindu, Buddhist and Jewish spiritual leaders throughout history.

This kind of gross intolerance and pure hate makes me sick and I respectfully disengage from this discussion. I appologize. Good luck.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Brian, posted 06-12-2005 4:00 PM Brian has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Brian, posted 06-12-2005 4:25 PM dsv has not yet responded
 Message 13 by arachnophilia, posted 06-13-2005 7:51 AM dsv has not yet responded

    
Brian
Member (Idle past 3036 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 10 of 139 (216467)
06-12-2005 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by dsv
06-12-2005 4:17 PM


.

This message has been edited by Brian, 10-14-2005 06:18 AM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by dsv, posted 06-12-2005 4:17 PM dsv has not yet responded

    
Brian
Member (Idle past 3036 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 11 of 139 (216535)
06-13-2005 7:15 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by jar
06-12-2005 2:26 PM


There's sin and there's Sin.
.

This message has been edited by Brian, 10-14-2005 06:19 AM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by jar, posted 06-12-2005 2:26 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by arachnophilia, posted 06-13-2005 7:49 AM Brian has responded
 Message 15 by jar, posted 06-13-2005 9:53 AM Brian has responded
 Message 22 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-13-2005 8:36 PM Brian has responded
 Message 25 by sidelined, posted 06-14-2005 8:23 AM Brian has responded

    
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 54 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 12 of 139 (216543)
06-13-2005 7:49 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Brian
06-13-2005 7:15 AM


Re: There's sin and there's Sin.
the first sin was against God, the creator of all life

ALL sin is against god.

but seriously though. sin is missing the mark, or straying from the path. how can you sin or not sin if you don't know good and evil? if we don't know the mark, or know the path?

what adam and eve did ALLOWED for sin, but could not have been sin itself. quite simply, they didn't know any better. but they certainly did afterwards, didn't they? so they hid.


אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Brian, posted 06-13-2005 7:15 AM Brian has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Brian, posted 06-13-2005 8:06 AM arachnophilia has responded

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 54 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 13 of 139 (216546)
06-13-2005 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by dsv
06-12-2005 4:17 PM


Am I being Punk'd?

yeah, i'm curious too. brian never struck me as a fundy.


אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by dsv, posted 06-12-2005 4:17 PM dsv has not yet responded

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 3036 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 14 of 139 (216550)
06-13-2005 8:06 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by arachnophilia
06-13-2005 7:49 AM


Re: There's sin and there's Sin.
.

This message has been edited by Brian, 10-14-2005 06:19 AM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by arachnophilia, posted 06-13-2005 7:49 AM arachnophilia has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by arachnophilia, posted 06-16-2005 11:50 AM Brian has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 15 of 139 (216584)
06-13-2005 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Brian
06-13-2005 7:15 AM


Re: There's sin and there's Sin.
Except that is not at all what happened.

Let me ask you a question.

Can animals, cows, dogs, sheep, sin?


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Brian, posted 06-13-2005 7:15 AM Brian has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Brian, posted 06-13-2005 10:06 AM jar has responded

  
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