To mike_the_wiz:
Thank you for your reply. I apologise for my delayed reply due to exams.
Reply to your post.
No, but if you say it isn't their fault, which you have - then obviously I shouldn't change my mind concerning God.
Basically, you're saying that a woman and man who have sex fully knowing the kid will die if they create it, and having full power to stop it, are innocent. The fact is, that the kid WILL die if they are born.
It's funny that you would see these people as innocent but God as guilty.
You seem to miss the point of sole creator in EVERY SINGLE ONE of my post. Is this deliberate?
The reason why the man and woman are not responsible for the kid's death even though they know that the kid will die is because they are not the sole creator(s) of all things. And if they really HAD the power to stop it, they would have made the kid immortal, meaning that they DIDN'T have the power to stop anything. Didn't you read my point on the chandelier or did your mind purposefully skipped over it?
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Consider then:
If a man and a woman both KNEW with certainty that if they have sex, the woman will give birth to a kid; further, they both KNEW with certainty that the moment the kid pops his/her cute crying head out of his/her mother's vagina, the chandelier (which the man and woman will install onto the ceiling) will (with certainty) fall onto the kid's head and kill him/her instantly.
They installed the chandelier, and they had sex (order doesn't matter)
The kid was then born and killed in EXACTLY the way predicted.
NOW tell me, are the man and woman responsible for killing the kid or not?
Now contrast this scenario with one where a man and woman have sex knowing that the woman MAY conceive, and should a kid be born, he/she will eventually die. But the man and woman has no way of knowing when/where/how the kid will die. Would you say that the man/woman in this case is responsible?
Can you see the difference between us and God now? Does sole creator mean ANYTHING to you?
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If God also "allows" his creation, then according to you, he is guilty, and he himself made the knife of a murderer - and he himself is guilty of the killing. How bizarre.
He did a lot more than that. God knows that if the murderer was created in another suburb, he/she will not kill. God knows that if the murderer has a towel instead of a knife in his/her hand, he/she will not stab (maybe strangle). God knows that if the murderer didn't undergo whatever emotionally disturbing events in life, he/she will not kill. See. He created ALL the CIRCUMSTANCE for the killing to take place, knowing that it will. If even ONE (or let's make it more realistic, some) of the elements were changed, the murderer will not kill. Thus the difference between God and man/woman lies, again, in sole creator.
This is from my last post:
In order to comply with the sole creator premise:
If C will die of a car crash, A and B must have created the car AND the circumstances for it to crash into C.
If C will die of a knife wound, A and B must have created both the knife AND the circumstances for it to cause a lethal wound on C.
If C will die of a dog bite, A and B must have created the dog AND the circumstances for it to bite C.
READ IT! QUIT MAKING ME REQUOTE MYSELF!
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How many times must I repeat the term "sole creator" before you take note?
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So using your logic, God is only responsible for our creation. BECAUSE, they knew the outcome and could stop it, aswell as God.
Bloody hell! Did you even read on AFTER that sentence you quoted? After I stated...
Are A and B responsible for C's birth? Yes, because their actions are the direct cause of C's birth. No other actions could lead to the birth of C.
Are A and B responsible for C's eventual death? No, because their actions are NOT the direct cause of C's death.
...I went on to explain the difference (sole creator) between the two scenarios(sole creator): why God is different from man/woman (sole creator), and thus why God is responsible (sole creator) and man/woman who give birth to kid knowing he/she will die is not (sole creator). Have you read any of my reasoning? Do you even know what I mean by sole creator?
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ANd yes, I'm afraid it's the same thing SD, but you are missing it. You see, if I know that having sex will lead to death of the kid, and I have the power to stop it, then in this example alone, I am omnimax in this situation. Therefore, you have shown that an omnimax situation doesn't necessarily make the omnimax person guilty.
2 points:
1) If you are omnimax in this example, why didn't you make the kid immortal? (Hint: you example did NOT take omnipotence into account)
2) Where does sole creator fit in your example? Search for it. Point it out.
This concludes my time at this lengthy topic which leads nowhere.
It was never meant to be this lengthy. You just failed to acknowledge the concept of sole creator EVERY SINGLE TIME I present it to you. You examples all lack it, but when I point it out to you, you shrug and present me with ANOTHER example with no sole creator. Way to go, big boy!
Even with the dice example there is something consistent with that of your other analogies. They cannot fully describe the real situation of this universe, as you are making it so that the six number dice is the intended outcome alone. There are many outcomes, yet as you rightly say - the person was not forced to throw the dice. Infact, it was even told to them that they shouldn't throw it.
Wow. Now I am convinced that you have no idea what you're talking about. There are many outcomes? How many outcomes? When you choose, there's only really one outcome, isn't there?
See, 1-2, 5-3, double 4, are all outcomes on the dice, but they CANNOT materialise because double sixes was the predetermined outcome. You THINK you can choose different outcomes (choose red, choose green, choose orange, etc.) but they cannot materialise because your choice was known and predetermined from the start. Just like the dice example.
Also, when you say that my analogy does not fully describe the real situation of the universe, you should also tell me WHY. Just stating an unsupported claim like that is foolish and discouraged in this forum.
Patiently awaiting your reply.
(Have you noticed how you seem to skip the points that cannot be taken out of context? How amusing...)
"Respect is like money, it can only be earned. When it is given, it becomes pittance"
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