Did Adam and eve really have a choice?

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i always thought this wasn't a very good answer, god said "good" not perfect, if it was flawless he would have said perfect, or something like that.

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this always burned me a bit since pefection is impossable

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The Hebrew word for good used in Genesis doesn't bring with it the thought of completion or being flawless.But then the Hebrew words translated as perfect or complete in the OT also do not carry the idea of being flawless.IMO the term without blemish doesn't carry the same meaning as Christians use flawless today.Even looking at the etymology of the word perfect we find that it carries a meaning of complete and not necessarily without flaw. IMO perfection is possible.All God really said about creation was that it was pleasant and agreeable, not necessarily complete.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

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Unfortunately it seems I hit 'The Christian Wall'

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Unfortunately many Christians don't actually read the story of Adam and Eve as it is written. Dogma and tradition make the story for them.Example: iano keeps mentioning Satan. Satan is not a part of the A&E story. There is a serpent or snake, but no Satan.Creation is not presented as being created without flaws.Also in the A&E story God is not presented as being all knowing. You even made that assumption.So if you take the story as written without Dogma and Tradition, Adam and Eve were content not to eat the fruit until they were given another choice by the snake.Also if you look at the story, Eve made a reasoned choice. Gaining wisdom is usually considered good in the OT.If you don't want the kids to have the candy in the bowl, don't put it within their reach. Even human parents know that.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

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The Fall can be subtitled by the sentence "man wanted to be independant of God"

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Where in the story of A&E do they show that they wished to be independent of God or that the choice made was because they wanted to be independent of God?

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

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Jesus acknowledges that people are evil, as He is addressing his Disciples. In the same moment, He suggests that what kind of a Father would give His son a snake?

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IF he asked for fish?A&E didn't ask for anything.Is a stone or snake necessarily a bad gift if the child didn't ask for anything?If I understand the usage of the word "evil" in the verse you shared, it deals with our actions and not our character. Considering all that happened before Jesus, I don't think anyone doubted that people do bad things. But Jesus was talking to people who have the knowledge of good and evil.In Genesis 3 we see that A&E did not have that knowledge when approached by the snake. So putting a bowl of candy in front of a child and telling them that they are not allowed to eat it or they will be punished, doesn't do much good if the child doesn't understand what good or bad behavior is or what punishment is.Obviously Eve didn't truly understand death, since it didn't deter her from reasoning that the fruit was good.Satan is still not part of the A&E story.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

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What is any disobedience to any instruction or law but operating independantly of whatever the instruction or law was meant to achieve.

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I disagree. Disobeying a parental instruction does not mean the child wants independence from the parent. (your analogy is like comparing apples and oranges).God didn't say he would throw them out of the garden or stop taking care of them if they disobeyed.So when Eve made a reasoned decision (not a defiant one) to eat the apple, expulsion from God was not a threat. Only death.The A&E story as written does not support the idea that A&E desired independence from God.We are talking about one story as written and not themes.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

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I doubt anyone can measure that. Can we keep to what we do know of choice in relation to independance from instruction/law.

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Sure I can, I've been a child and the relationship presented in the story of A&E is between a creator and his created, not a people and their government. So it is a parent to child relationship. They are not presented as adult minded regardless of age.Not all disobedience is intentional or rebellious.A&E had to start using their reasoning sometime after they were created. Eve made a reasoned decision. The story does not demonstrate a desire for independence from God and you have yet to show that it does.

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If you want to speak English you use the definitions of English. If you want to talk bible you use the bible definitions of bible. It can't be helped. The bible is defined by itself - as is English.

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The Bible is defined by man. Language is defined by man. They are both products of man and change accordingly.Where in the Bible does it state that Adam and Eve's disobedience was because they desired independence from God?

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Biblically, death means being separated from God.

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Where is this demonstrated in the Bible? Where does the Bible support the idea that when the word "death" is used it means something other than a physical death?

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

The story of A&E does not demonstrate a desire for independence from God and you have yet to show that it does.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

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Yes, He did choose this reality, but are you complaining about it really? People who don't like it have the option of being saved from it.

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If you are talking about accepting Christ, then please explain how that saves one from our current reality? Accepting Christ doesn't take away the struggles of life, nor does it make one as innocent as Adam and Eve.There really is no option.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

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How do you figure 'exactly the same' God said "like" or "as" one of us. "Like" is not the same as same. As fit "as" a fiddle is not the same as being a fiddle.

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Please tell me you do understand the difference between "fit as a fiddle" and Genesis 3:22 does not contain figurative language. Just as a cup of sugar and a cup of flour are like amounts. God stated that man had become like one of them knowing good and evil. So we have like knowledge when it comes to knowing good and evil.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

Hey CreavolutionDo you realize you answered my post and not iano?At least I assume your response was to iano.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France