EvC Forum: Did Adam and eve really have a choice?

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Topic: Did Adam and eve really have a choice?

Funkaloyd

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Message 98 of 219 (247215)
09-29-2005 8:27 AM

Reply to: Message 97 by iano
09-29-2005 7:33 AM

Re: We meet again - (I sure hope it will be up there)

Iano, how can anything predict the future with 100% accuracy if the Universe is not deterministic in nature?

(Making something out of nothing) Have you got a link to any reputable scientist who says this could ever be achieved

Amazingly enough: Hawking radiation - Wikipedia

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	Message 97 by iano, posted 09-29-2005 7:33 AM		iano has replied

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Funkaloyd

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Message 103 of 219 (247226)
09-29-2005 9:22 AM

Reply to: Message 100 by iano
09-29-2005 8:51 AM

Re: We meet again - (I sure hope it will be up there)

But even if we remove the word "predict" and assume that God has a special perception of time, every moment of time must still be set in concrete for his knowledge to work. And it's set as he chose it to be.

The second answer here might be a better explanation of how something can come from nothing.

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	Message 100 by iano, posted 09-29-2005 8:51 AM		iano has replied

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	Message 105 by Heathen, posted 09-29-2005 10:58 AM	Funkaloyd has not replied
	Message 107 by iano, posted 09-29-2005 12:13 PM	Funkaloyd has not replied

Funkaloyd

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Message 127 of 219 (247896)
10-01-2005 9:35 AM

Reply to: Message 126 by Phat
10-01-2005 7:01 AM

Re: We meet again

I don't think that God necessarily has a problem if we accept one or more of the following to be true:

God didn't create the Universe
God isn't benevolent
God isn't omnipotent
God isn't omniscient
Humans don't have free will

I should think that not many are readily able to accept the possibility that God isn't benevolent or that humans don't have free will. But if, for example, we reject the notion that God is omniscient and knew the future as he created the Universe, then perhaps we can blame ourselves (or Adam and Eve) for our suffering.

...But, yes, preferably we should banish him from our collective imaginations.

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	Message 126 by Phat, posted 10-01-2005 7:01 AM		Phat has not replied

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Funkaloyd

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Message 153 of 219 (248716)
10-03-2005 9:20 PM

Reply to: Message 147 by nator
10-03-2005 3:00 PM

Re: He chose this reality, not us

schrafinator writes:

Faith writes:

A Christian starts out trying to show the human need for a Savior and soon encounters all these objections to God's allowing sin at all instead of gratitude that a way out is offered. It's a strange conversation. I think I will try to avoid it in future.

If one follows your viewpoint back to it's logical conclusion, that is where it leads.

If your portrayal of God is correct, then god isn't some big hero for "offering a way out", because he put us in this terrible situation Himself, on purpose, knowing it would cause us immense suffering.

God needlessly set up humanity to fail, like rats in a science experiments.

And yet many of the rats have Stockholm Syndrome.

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	Message 147 by nator, posted 10-03-2005 3:00 PM		nator has not replied

Funkaloyd

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Message 161 of 219 (248789)
10-04-2005 5:45 AM

Reply to: Message 158 by iano
10-04-2005 5:10 AM

Re: We meet again

iano writes:

It makes sense that man had choice. The whole story makes sense if man had choice. Nothing in this story...or the rest of the bible makes sense if he didn't.

I agree, but the point is not that humans don't have free will. It's that humans cannot have free will if God is both omniscient and the creator (it doesn't make sense).

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	Message 158 by iano, posted 10-04-2005 5:10 AM		iano has replied

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	Message 163 by iano, posted 10-04-2005 9:23 AM	Funkaloyd has not replied
	Message 196 by Phat, posted 10-06-2005 6:51 AM	Funkaloyd has not replied

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