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Author Topic:   Ned Flanders, of "The Simpsons" TV program
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 16 of 37 (191070)
03-11-2005 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Minnemooseus
03-10-2005 10:40 PM


Re: As long as we are slightly off topic
Watch it, or you'll be dealing with AdminFatTony.
"Accidents do happen... such as the killing of you, by us."

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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 37 (191071)
03-11-2005 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by contracycle
03-11-2005 6:18 AM


Re: Flanders and proof against God
And yet, the moments in which religion is portrayed as being genuinely, rather than opportunistically, important to Flanders undermine this subversiveness, and I wonder if there is some extraneous "balance" agenda at work.
I don't think it's so much a "balance agenda" as it is that the Simpsons is one of the few shows in history that really sees the ridiculousness of all sides in any given situation.
One of the best examples I can think of is the medical marijuana episode. While the episode definitely came down on the side of legalization, it also had a hearty sense of how generally silly the subculture of drug legalization is. The two big moments that made me laugh my ass off were when Homer says, "Whether you've got glaucoma, or you just rented the Matrix..." and when Phish stopped playing at the legalization rally, sniffed the air, and the singer said, "Is that pot? Okay, we'd better see a doctor's note, or Phish is out of here!"
All in all, it gave off a vibe of, "yeah, we're for drug legalization, but we know that part of the reason for it is because people want to get toasted, eat a whole bag of chips, slap on Dark Side of the Moon, and giggle their ass off at Scooby Doo. And you know what? We can laugh at that."
Same deal with Flanders and Christianity. The Simpsons generally comes down on the side of Christianity being a sorta lurching beast of a religion, but at the same time, there's comedy to be found in scenes where Flanders is totally right about God. For instance, the bowling league episode... specifically the bit where Ned only knocks down nine pins, and Homer begins to laugh at him. He calmly whispers, "It's me! Ned!" and the tenth pin falls down of its own accord. No matter your position on Christianity as a whole, that scene's still damn funny. And in order for scenes like that to work logically, it has to be established, at least elsewhere in the show, that Ned really is honest about his religion.
Anyway, that's the point I'm circuitously meandering towards here... the biggest "agenda" on the Simpsons is comedy. And any end of the political or social spectrum is fair game.

"Creationists make it sound as though a theory is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night."
-Isaac Asimov

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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 37 (191072)
03-11-2005 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by crashfrog
03-11-2005 11:08 AM


Re: As long as we are slightly off topic
"How, may I ask, did you get past the hall monitor?"

"Creationists make it sound as though a theory is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night."
-Isaac Asimov

This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 19 of 37 (191073)
03-11-2005 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Dan Carroll
03-11-2005 11:14 AM


Re: Flanders and proof against God
You guys make me want to go out and buy the simpsons video collection! Does anyone know how many of the Simpsons seasons are up for sale as of yet?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 37 (191075)
03-11-2005 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Phat
03-11-2005 11:34 AM


Re: Flanders and proof against God
I believe they're up to season 5. Which is perfect, because 4 and 5 are when the show was at its peak. (Far as I'm concerned.)

"Creationists make it sound as though a theory is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night."
-Isaac Asimov

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pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6022 days)
Posts: 1567
Joined: 06-10-2004


Message 21 of 37 (191080)
03-11-2005 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Minnemooseus
03-10-2005 6:59 PM


Re: Flanders and proof against God
Actually, the crayon in the brain caused the genius - Homer lost it when the crayon was removed.
Nope, other way around. Homer pushed a bunch of crayons up his nose when he was six and sneezed out all but one. Homer has it removed when he is working as a human guinea pig at a lab. Moe returns the crayon to Homer's brain at the end of the episode when Homer can no longer stand being a genius in a dumb-man's world.
If the situation were to have been explored in greater detail, I think Flanders response might actually have been "This looks right, but it can't be true. Still, I better not let this out." Then he burns the paper.
There was plenty of time for the detail you suggest, instead, Flanders calls the proof "airtight."
Homer: Hey, Flanders, heading for church? Well, I thought I
could save you a little time.
Ned: Oooh, found a new shortcut.
Homer: Better. I was working on a flat tax proposal and I
accidentally proved there's no God. [shows Flanders a
sheet of paper with complex figuring on it]
Ned: [flustered] We'll just see about that. [reads the paper]
Uh-oh. Well, maybe he made a mistake. [checks it again]
Nope, it's airtight. Can't let this little doozy get out.
[uses a lighter to burn the "proof"]
[in the background, Homer puts more copies of his no-God
paper on the windshields of nearby cars]
on-line script
I think his Christian faith in itself would convince him that the "proof" couldn't be correct.
Bottom line - I can't hold that this little incident makes Flanders a hypocrite.
I think it is a defining moment for his character. He does it while he is alone, and importantly, doesn't speak directly to God about it as he does with so many other things in his life - such as the time he yells "God, it's me Ned!" after knocking over nine bowling pins (with the tenth following his plea).
He didn't respond to the proof with his faith as you "think" he should; he responded by attempting to hide the proof from the rest of the world.
This is the moment Flanders' faith is shown to be superficial.

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Angeldust
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 37 (191088)
03-11-2005 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by coffee_addict
03-10-2005 10:08 PM


Last off topic post, I promise Moose!
I wasn't trying to make a statement on gay marriages, it just seemed like Phatboy was assuming that it wasn't an issue yet. But given how lightly most people take marriage today, it's not surprising that there are already gay marriage statistics. No comment meant on sexual orientation, just divorce.

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Thor
Member (Idle past 5910 days)
Posts: 148
From: Sydney, Australia
Joined: 12-20-2004


Message 23 of 37 (191120)
03-11-2005 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Dan Carroll
03-10-2005 3:24 PM


Re: Okaly Doakaly...lets put the FUN back in fundamentalism
Lovejoy: And the lord said, "Whack ye the serpents which crawl on their bellies, and they town shall be a beacon unto others." So you see, Lisa... even God himself endorses whacking day.
Lisa: Lemme see that book.
Lovejoy: ...no.
I recall another lisa/lovejoy discussion in which Lovejoy delivers a classic observation. Lisa asks if something is a sin...
Lovejoy: Oh Lisa, everything is a sin. Have you ever read this thing (indicates bible)? You know, technically we're not even allowed to go to the bathroom.

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Replies to this message:
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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 24 of 37 (191192)
03-12-2005 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by pink sasquatch
03-11-2005 1:20 PM


Re: Flanders and proof against God
In reference to the crayon in/out situation - Yes, my memory of the incident was bad.
Now, from the "Goofs" section of here, the reference supplied in message 13:
This episode does not make sense because Homer could not become smart by taking the crayon out of his brain because of the "simpson gene"(mentioned in "Lisa The Simpson") that makes all male simpsons idiots.
"The Simpsons" program often is in reasonably close contact with "real life". Much of what happens in the program could conceivably really happen, although I certainly hope the are no Homers out there, at the controls of nuclear plants. Indeed, some episodes, such as the ones concerning the death of Flander's wife or the death of saxophonist "Bleeding Gums" Murphy have very serious themes.
That said, there are also the episodes that are much more in "fantasy'' territory. The Halloween specials and the episodes featuring the space invaders are prime examples. I think that the "Genius Homer" episode is very much tilted towards this "fantasy" type style, and should thus not be weight very heavily in the evaluation of the natures of the characters in general. After all, in a Halloween special, Ned Flanders might actually be portrayed as some sort of evil character. Are you going to hold such a thing against Ned?
pink sasquatch writes:
I think it is a defining moment for his character. He does it while he is alone, and importantly, doesn't speak directly to God about it as he does with so many other things in his life - such as the time he yells "God, it's me Ned!" after knocking over nine bowling pins (with the tenth following his plea).
He didn't respond to the proof with his faith as you "think" he should; he responded by attempting to hide the proof from the rest of the world.
This is the moment Flanders' faith is shown to be superficial.
Ned is faced with what I will call an "absurdism" - A proof of the non-existence of God. As such, might the only reasonable response also be an "absurdism"? How would you suggest that he should have responded, to maintain his "good Christian" status?
I also though of a possible alternate plot line. What if "genius Homer" would have presented Ned with a "proof" that Ned did not exist? Should Ned have read the proof, and upon finding it unflawed, promptly disappear?
Moose
{Added by edit:
Re: Dan's message 18 - I think that "Fat Tony", with the "How, may I ask, did you get past the hall monitor?" quote, would make a fine avatar for AdminJar.
Also fixed a typo.}
This message has been edited by minnemooseus, 03-12-2005 14:39 AM

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 37 (191257)
03-13-2005 3:31 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Minnemooseus
03-12-2005 2:31 PM


Re: Flanders and proof against God
Re: Dan's message 18 - I think that "Fat Tony", with the "How, may I ask, did you get past the hall monitor?" quote, would make a fine avatar for AdminJar.
Well, it would be close. I grew up in an Italian Mob Family but they still called me Bubba JimBob. That doesn’t sound quite as bad in Italian, it's VinieJimBob. We were in the Costa Nostra but way back then we didn’t know what it was. That meant we were always talking about our thing with a rising inflection.
Costa Nostra?

Costa Nostra????

To make growing up worse I had a Jewish mother who was always making us feel guilty because we didn’t know what Our Thing was.
You don’t know where that THING has been?
If you keep playing with Your Thing you’ll go blind!
You keep playing with it and one day you’ll find your poor momma lying beside some tollgate.
Since we were in the deep south, having a gangster dad and Jewish mom made life interesting. For one thing, telling the kids at school that my dad was a maid man just didn’t carry any weight. Some folk thought he was a Goodfella, Mom said he was a Mensch but GrandDad said he was a Gonif.
He did get invited to join the Klan and become a Knight. He saddled up the Percheron and put on his armor and headed off. The third time he returned home with a flaming cross stuck on the end of his spear I think they asked him to leave.
This message has been edited by AdminJar, 03-13-2005 10:03 AM

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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 476 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 26 of 37 (191371)
03-14-2005 12:15 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Thor
03-11-2005 9:09 PM


Re: Okaly Doakaly...lets put the FUN back in fundamentalism
Thor writes:
I recall another lisa/lovejoy discussion in which Lovejoy delivers a classic observation. Lisa asks if something is a sin...
Lovejoy: Oh Lisa, everything is a sin. Have you ever read this thing (indicates bible)? You know, technically we're not even allowed to go to the bathroom.
It was with Marge, not Lisa.

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Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5032 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 27 of 37 (311824)
05-14-2006 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Minnemooseus
03-10-2005 2:38 PM


Lisa was arrested - is Nelson haunting Flanders?
quote:
New Episode:
The Monkey Suit
POSTED May 14th
- Airs Tonight!
Lisa is arrested for defying the new law in Springfield against teaching evolution after Reverend Lovejoy is appointed by Mayor Quimby (at Ned Flanders's request) to be the town's new "morality czar" in charge of promoting creationism; can a comment made in the show's first season come back to save her? Guest stars Larry Hagman and Melanie Griffith.
StackPath
It seems to me now that the producer(s) of the Simpsons are not making mistakes with Flanders but rather can not explain
Not Found, Error 404
quote:
The scene opened with Lisa Simpson having just given Gould a fossil specimen to analyze. Looking into a microscope, presumably at Lisa's specimen, Gould was oohing and aahing about its high merit and significance (Gould actually did the voiceover). Then Gould turned to Lisa and said: "Enough about my work. What did you want to see me about?"
of/in a prior show.
The entire show tonight could have been ripped from SETH (structure of evolutionary theory) page 653
quote:
A predominanatly social issue...especially with the evolution of altruism, have generally been posed in organismal terms - "why cant saintly Joe be so nice if he loses reproductive success thereby?"
Time slips into the future but FOX goes backwards, quite decidedly unless of course they meant Nelson to be this cup of Joe. They commericalized "aa" tonight.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 28 of 37 (457289)
02-22-2008 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Minnemooseus
03-10-2005 2:38 PM


Christianity Today accepts transgenderism
Minnemooseus writes:
The Christian right has recently found themselves to be in an awkward position concerning the "The Simpsons" TV program. A recent episode (which I did not personally see) had the Simpsons hometown of Springfield legalizing and promoting homosexual marriage.
I just read an interesting article on Transgenderism in Christianity Today. Wonder what Ned would think of that? I doubt he would be oklie doklie with it.

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 Message 1 by Minnemooseus, posted 03-10-2005 2:38 PM Minnemooseus has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 29 of 37 (457299)
02-22-2008 11:23 AM


In an episode when Homer's party caused a lot of rain and flood and all of that, Ned thought it was god bringing down the great flood again to wipe out the wicked. He built an ark and had 2 animal of each kind on it, but no females, though. He didn't want indecent acts on his boat.
I know the whole thing was suppose to be humorous, but this reflected a very important part of christianity. The reason Noah had 2 of each kind of animal on his ark was to repopulate the earth. All Ned was worried about was the 2 of each kind on his ark. Never mind the repopulation thing. He did this simply to make himself some kind of saviour but deep down inside he didn't really care about the purpose of his action.

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 30 of 37 (549104)
03-04-2010 12:49 AM


Bump
I just stumbled upon and re-read this old topic and thought it worthy of a bump.
Any new comments about the Simpson and religion?
Or something like that.
Moose

Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith
"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien
"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose

  
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