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Author Topic:   Created in the image of God
nator
Member (Idle past 2196 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 10 of 101 (2311)
01-17-2002 12:06 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Lorenzo7
01-16-2002 12:13 PM


How do you know you were made in the image of God?
Do you have evidnece of what God looks like, so anyone can compare what you look like with what God looks like and pretty much everybody agrees that the two of you bear a striking resemblance to each other?
Or, were you taught that God made us in His/Her/It's image, and you accept that at face value?
Look, you are free to believe that, of course, more power to you. However, if you are using a religious teaching to try to make a point about a scientific theory of Biology, I really don't think that it's going to do much for your argument.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Lorenzo7, posted 01-16-2002 12:13 PM Lorenzo7 has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2196 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 11 of 101 (2314)
01-17-2002 12:14 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Lorenzo7
01-16-2002 12:13 PM


[QUOTE]You can see the wind or gravity, but you can see the results of it.[/B][/QUOTE]
Great, you accept inference as evidence!
We actually DO observe evolution directly both in the lab and in the field, and we see lots of "results of it."
Have a look at these two web sites for a good introduction to Evolutionary Biology:
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Temple/9917/evolution/evolution-for-beginners.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-intro-to-biology.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-definition.html
Please bring any specific questions, arguments, criticisms, or comments back here and we will discuss them.
Happy Learning!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Lorenzo7, posted 01-16-2002 12:13 PM Lorenzo7 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by TrueCreation, posted 01-19-2002 2:39 AM nator has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2196 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 70 of 101 (3357)
02-03-2002 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by TrueCreation
01-28-2002 6:18 PM


Lots of things are "directly condemned" in the Bible, not just homosexuality. If you are going to follow the "rules" about homosexuality, you have to follow the rules on everything, wopuldn't you say, unless you are allowed to pick and choose which of God's laws to follow?
Some examples from Leviticus, the same book which declares homosexuality an abomination. If you are going to follow one of Leviticus' laws, shouldn't you follow them all?
Why don't you perform blood sacrifice on the altar anymore, even though it is commanded in Leviticus? In fact, the first NINE chapters of Leviticus concerns itself with bloody sacrifice. Far less time is spent on homosexuality.
15:19-30, 33 God lays down the law on menstruating women. Such women are to God both filthy and sinful, and anyone who comes near them is contaminated by them.
12:1-8 Women are dirty and sinful after childbirth, so God prescribes rituals for their purification. If a boy is born, the
mother is unclean for 7 days and must be purified for 33 days; but if a girl is born, the mother is unclean for 14 days and be
purified for 66 days. This is because, in the eyes of God, girls are twice as dirty as boys.
God really doesn't like women, does he?
Don't round the corners of your head or mar the corners of your beard. 19:27
Children who curse their parents, adulterers, and homosexuals must be killed. 20:9-12
Woman with "familiar spirits" must be stoned to death. 20:27
The unchaste daughters of priests must be burnt to death. 21:9
Handicapped people must not approach the altar. 21:16-23
Cursers and blasphemers must be stoned to death. 24:16, 24
God places a dollar value on human life; with women worth less than men. 27:3-7
11:10-12 Clams, oysters, crabs and lobsters are abominations to God.
18:29, 19:8 "Whosoever shall commit any of these abominations ... shall be cut off from among their people."
19:18 "Love thy neighbor as thyself." This is by far the best verse in Leviticus, and one of the best in the entire bible. It
seems out of place here, however, since in the next chapter God orders us to kill wizards (20:6), children who are
disrespectful toward their parents (20:9), adulterers (20:10), and homosexuals (20:13). And throughout the Old Testament,
God encourages the Israelites to kill their neighbors every chance they get. (See Numbers 31 and 1 Samuel 15 for just two
of many examples.)
20:10 Both parties in adultery shall be executed.
20:11 "And the man that lieth with his father's wife ... both of them shall be put to death." Which? The man and his father?
The father and his wife? Or the man and his father's wife? Oh heck, just kill all three.
20:12 If a man "lies" with his daughter-in-law, then both must be killed.
20:14 If you "lie" with your wife and your mother-in-law (now that sounds fun!), then all three of your must be burned to
death.
20:15-16 If a man or woman "lie with a beast" both the person and the poor animal are to be killed.
20:27 People with "familiar spirits" (witches, fortune tellers, etc.) are to be stoned to death.
21:18 Anyone with a "flat nose, or any thing superfluous" must stay away from the altar of God.
21:20 A man with damaged testicles must not "come nigh to offer the bread of his God."
22:3-5 A man who is unclean, or is a leper, or has a "running issue", or "whose seed goeth from him", or who touches any
dead or "creeping thing" ... "shall not eat of the holy things, until he be clean."
23:29-30 Don't do any work on the day of atonement or God will destroy you.
24:14-23 Anyone who blasphemes or curses shall be stoned to death by the entire community.
19:19 "Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with a mingled seed: neither shall
a garment mingled of linen and woolen come upon thee." I'm glad God told me about this, I was just about to do some of
these awful things.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by TrueCreation, posted 01-28-2002 6:18 PM TrueCreation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by LudvanB, posted 02-03-2002 5:12 PM nator has not replied
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 Message 74 by TrueCreation, posted 02-04-2002 10:22 PM nator has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2196 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 96 of 101 (3690)
02-07-2002 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by TrueCreation
02-02-2002 6:02 PM


quote:
"TC, how can you say that the Bible is "correct" when there are so many different versions of it, and it has been translated so many times (often for political reasons rather than theological accuracy), there is no original version, and there have been entire chapters left out it?"
--Sure there is an original version, unfortunately most of the population can't read hebrew. Hebrew words can be translated into a veriety of english words, this is one reason alot of debate pops up, so we most of the time need to go to the original hebrew or a literal translation. Many of the translations also simply take what the bible says, and putting it into an 'every day like' grammer so it is easier to comprehend.
Um, TC, there is no original version of the Bible. There does not exist any first copy of any of it. I believe that it would have been written in Arameic and Greek, anyway, not Hebrew. Hebrew versions don't come till many generations of versions later.
Do you know nothing at all of the history of the Bible? Why do you think that the King James version of the Bible is named that? King James did a translation that helped him politically. Martin Luther did the same thing. So did the Catholics.
Here is a timeline of when all of this happened with the Bible.
http://www.greatsite.com/timeline/main.html
quote:
"You are always speaking about your Bible is if its was somehow special and unique...there are dozens of different "holy" books across dozens of different cultures. Why should yours be any truer."
--Because it has not been falsified, it is completely true,
(as long as it is falsifiable, as some parts in the bible require complete faith, that is, there is no evidence for or against it, this would require faith) front to back cover, from everything that we find that can be tested, it comes up positive, if you would like to list anything else you think is eroneously proclaimed in the bible, I'd like to discuss it's feasability, unless you fear it is all accurate.
There are contradictory accounts of when Jesus was crucified, depending upon which Gospel you read. Matthew, Mark, and Luke all have him being crucified after passover, while John has him being crucified BEFORE Passover.
I quote many passages and link to each of the gospels' versions of the crucifiction in message #127 in the thread "Is the Bible the word of God". It is crystal clear in the scriptures.
You did not address this obvious contradiction in your reply.
"67.Jesus said that his true followers will routinely perform the following tricks: 1) cast out devils, 2)speak in tongues, 3) take up serpents, 4) drink poisons without harm, and 5) cure the sick by touching them. Mk.16:17-18"
--Yup, I have yet to see the drinking poisons without harm and cure the sick by touching them, but the rest is evident it happens.
So, you admit that IT IS NOT TRUE that Jesus' followers can drink poison without harm? Doesn't that mean that, in this case, that the Bible is WRONG?
All you do in your reply to my list of biblical contradictions is handwave and interpret out the wazoo so you can't be wrong.
...which is fine, of course, but then you can't turn around and say that ANYTHING in the Bible has any "true" meaning, so therefore you cannot assume that any of it reflects what we see in nature.
Jesus most certainly did very directly say that he would be back very soon, and that the people who were listening to him right then would see him. You have to twist and change the obvious, straightforward meaning of the scripture to make it mean anything else.
What you obviously HAVEN'T done is notice that the farther away in time after Jesus dies that we go in the Bible, the less the apostles mention that Jesus will be coming back within their listeners' lifetimes, and they start talking about some far-distsnt time that he will bring the "Kingdom of Heaven" back to Earth to the faithful.
Why don't you try looking at a book that presents all four Gospels at the same time, so you can see how they are quite different from each other in many details, with John being REALLY different from the other three. The following is a good one:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0826705006/ref=pd_sim_books/002-3934984-7943267
The Bible DOES call bats, birds. It actually calles them a "fowl":
11:13
And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls ; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the
ossifrage, and the ospray,
11:14
And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;
11:15
Every raven after his kind;
11:16
And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
11:17
And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,
11:18
And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,
11:19
And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
quote:
"and how we dress(Bible says no cloth weaved with more than one thread,its a sin)? Come on,TC...even you cant be that gullible."
--Assuming it requires gullibility, but where did you get the 'no cloth weaved with more than one thread' being a sin in the bible?
Leviticus 19:19
Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by TrueCreation, posted 02-02-2002 6:02 PM TrueCreation has not replied

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