HISTORY BUFFS, COME HELP ME WITH JESUS!

You will be full of questions as you approach town. Many will say that the Messiah has come. You, being a curious man, will want to meet Him. The Jewish leaders, however, are telling everyone that the man is a fraud. It is they who are rejecting Him, and you will thus have the choice at that point of clinging to your old traditions and listening to your earthly human leaders or of daring to meet this Messiah yourself and draw your own conclusions.
Why are the Jewish leaders rejecting Jesus as Messiah? Some say that Jesus represented a threat to the established system. Others say that He was the solution and the fullfillment. It depends who has the more persuasive argument. Christians believe that no one comes to God unless they are drawn to Him. History shows us that many have obviously been drawn rather than merely duped.This message has been edited by Phatboy, 11-21-2004 11:50 AM

I opened a new thread concerning "The Offer".If you have something more specific to add, join me there.

---

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

Everyone believes in something.........your belief just happens to be in unbelief. You know very well you can't prove the first two.......as for the latter two, those are Judaic, not Christian. Only non-scientific, philosophical ones, which you showed in the rest of your statement, as you went on to say......... Wow, the justified killing of slave masters, rapists and murders......this is poor even by philosophical standards.

I am aware of this. There is zero proof that the story originated in Babylon. Like I keep saying, I can't DISPROVE there isn't a planet out there full of poker-playing dogs.......but I have no reason to believe it's so.I also have no reason to believe that Christianity's theology was in any way contaminated.

Men never died in the name of Superman.........

This is untrue......a man's relationship with his God is entirely personal. Tell me, AdminJar......is THIS some of the intolerance and bigotry you were speaking of.And I'm not trying to get you in trouble with the admins, Contracycle, as I believe you should be able to say whatever the hell you want.......I'm just pointing out the obvious double-standards around here.

Buddy, you really need to stop just swallowing everything you read whole......the modern King James old testament is based off of the Hebrew texts. It is these same scriptures that verify the deity of Christ.

You try to twist it to make it sound like it was a one time thing.......Jews continue to reject Christ today. The rejection of true religion is continuous of them, as they don't WANT true religion, just tradition......no Jew today really believes what he claims to. If they did, they would have rebuilt the temple and would be currently making sacrifices today.......

How can lack of belief be a belief? If that was true i'd have an infinite number of beliefs, since there are an infinite number of possibilities that I have no belief in. In reality obviously, lack of belief is just that...not having a positive belief in something. Children are responsible for their parents crimes are they? Ok, next time we catch someone doing something wrong we'll murder their first born to try and make them stop. And do you really think execution is ever justified? It seems like it's the easy copout way to me. I'm glad I live in a society that has outlawed it.

I really don't believe that is true. Every first born Egyptian male certainly would have grown up to become slave drivers themselves....... Execution is undoubtedly justified by logic. If you do something to someone, you deserve to have something equally bad done to you. It's that simple. Not to mention that the lives God took he also gave in the first place.......all things are God's, for Him to do what He pleases.

Fair enough, why not? I do think its true, since i lack belief and I know what it is. So people are guilty of crimes they haven't comitted yet? Anyway thats besides the point, thats not what the first borns were killed for. They were killed to try and persuade their parents to do something. Thankfully it's not that simple. If everyone abided by that principle society would crumble. Thankfully my society is more advanced and way more stable than that. I still see no justification for execution, ever. Doesn't make it any less of a feeble copout. In fact it makes it more of one, since more options would be open to an omnipotent being.

Because I can't see someone looking at the same evidence I've looked at, such as regarding Quantum Mechanics as we were talking about on the other thread, and concluding that there can't be a God.......I can see being an agnostic, but I think it takes as much faith to be an atheist as it does to be a theist.And this is confirmed with the way atheists often react when you questions their preconceptions. Take, for example, that long discussion we had on love without God......a lot of people got really pissed off for very little reason in that convo. If the commission of the crimes are inevitable, why does this not make sense? And that "something" was release the slaves that they were driving...... If it's dealt out on an individual basis, yes......when dealt out by non-partisan forces (such as a government), it's called justice. C.S. Lewis referred to this kind of attitude as the "snobbery of chronology". You assume that because your ways are NEWER they're also BETTER....... Maybe it's never NECESSARY, but it's undoubtedly just......justice is, by definition, equal penalty for equal crime, correct? Why would God need a copout? All things are His. He doesn't have to explain how He uses what is His.

Atheism and agnosticism are not different points on the same line. They are on completely seperate and unrelated lines. Atheism is the binary opposite of theism. Theism = belief in a god, atheism = lack of that belief. Agnosticism is the binary opposite of Gnosticism. Gnosticism = knowledge of god is possible, agnosticism = no knowledge is possible. This is why it is possible to be an atheistic agnostic, a theistic agnostic, a theistic gnostic or an atheistic gnostic. Belief does not necessarily stem from knowledge, irrational beliefs are perfectly possible. I don't think I took part in that thread. What was your username before you were banned? People who are found plotting murder are not tried with murder. If no crime occured then there is no need to punish. What the something was is irrelevant. If some man is holding someone hostage, would you go get his son or daugther and kill her in an attempt to make him give up? So you don't think governments can be unjust? You don't think that a society can still crumble even if it has a goverment? Where did I mention chronology? The roman and greek civilisations were better than the dark ages imho, and they were also older. What I said had no bearing on when those things happened. If they happened now I would say the same, if they happened tomorrow I would say the same. If there was a society yesterday that did something better than ours I would ask why we weren't more like that. Nope, I don't agree. If it was equal penalty for equal crime then when someone committed assault, we would assault them. If someone committed rape, we would rape them. If someone killed someones child, we would kill their child. Strangely though, we don't do that.

I don't believe it's possible to be any of these things....... Most of that thread was off-topic, which is why you probably don't remember it.....it was started by you, in fact, something about atheists having less reason to live. That;s because you can't prove someone would go through with murder just because they were plotting........but God knows exactly what everyone will do. If I knew their son was gonna grow up to be Hitler, yes........ We don't do the first because it offends modern sensibilities. It's c cultural thing. We don't do the second because it would be seen as a violation of both the raper and the raper. Again, cultural. And we don't kill someone's child when they killed a child because that child couldn't control the action of his or her parent. It would be unjust to the child, who commited no crime.But whether it offends your sensibilities or not, these punishments (except the last) would be just. Which is why we refer to such things as "poetic justice".And, connecting back to earlier discussion, you're displaying attributes which confirm my opinion that atheists have as much faith as theists........but atheists certainly aren't more logical than theists, as you demonstrate in this particular argument about capital punishment. Because you were raised in a culture where capital punishment is regarded as barbaric, despite the logical evidence to the contrary, you persist that executions are never justified.

All you have provided are empty assertions.Therefore we have nothing to discuss in this thread.Good Day!

---

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.