are christian wives respected?

Two identical threads and two identical responses? Is this another glitch, Admin?EDIT: NM, looks like it got fixed. It was either A) My computer/network here at work, or B) glitch fixed by the admin.------------------
What is intelligence without wisdom?[This message has been edited by Satcomm, 02-10-2003]

Preface: I agree with TB, in that, I side with Funk on the matter. (You're probably thinking 'yeah those Christians stick together'.) My wife and I have a Christian marriage and we have a very healthy relationship. None of your (schraf) complaints are valid or applicable in our situation. I know you have statistics of the Southern Baptists or whatever, but it totally has nothing to do with our marriage.With that said, I'll reply to your thread:

quote:

---

It was finally explained to me by TB that while he could take advice from his wife if he wanted to, he didn't have to, and he was never directed by her. Likewise, she must always follow his direction, and always take his advice.

---

You don't seem to understand what 'out of reverence for Christ' means to two people who believe, so you will probably not understand this type of relationship. Also, it's really not your business, is it? Live your marriage however you want. We're not telling you what to do.

quote:

---

My next question was if he respects her as a person.

---

I can't speak for Funk's wife, however I can speak for my own. She does respect me as a person as I respect her as a person. Oh, I'm probably annoying at times, but then-again, I'm a guy and a geek.

quote:

---

The larger question is, is it possible to truly respect a person if you ulimately can control them?

---

This is an incorrect question. It is not about control. You completely misunderstand the situation. So, my question for you is: Is it possible to love and trust someone so much that you just want to submit to them and do the right things to have a healthy family? This question goes both ways.------------------
What is intelligence without wisdom?

quote:

---

But does she HAVE to take your advice and guidence,

---

No, she does not HAVE to take it. She CHOOSES whether or not to take it out of love, trust, and faith.

quote:

---

while you can CHOOSE to take hers or not?

---

Sure. Both parties have free will.

quote:

---

But you have said that when you have a disagreement about some action to take, you and god get together and decide what to do, and she will abide by your descision.

​

That, by definition, means that, even if it's in a small way, you can tell her what to do and she must simply do it. This is what you have explained to me as her role as a good Christian wife, unless you are changing things now.

---

You have indicated in the past that you do not think God exists. Therefore you do not understand the actions of two people who do believe that God exists.

quote:

---

To me, this is not really true respect. Unless she can ALWAYS have the option to say "no" and make it stick if she feels the need to, unless there is never a time when one of you can simply overrule the other, true mutual respect is not possible. Not adult mutual respect, anyway.

---

She does have the option to say "no". What do you consider "adult mutual respect"?

quote:

---

Gen 3:16
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

---

This is from different dispensation. It was reclarified and added to by the New Testament.

quote:

---

Peter 3:5
For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands

---

Lovely, however you conveniently left out verse 7:(KJV) Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.(NLT) In the same way, you husbands must give honor to your wives. Treat her with understanding as you live together. She may be weaker than you are, but she is your equal partner in God's gift of new life. If you don't treat her as you should, your prayers will not be heard.

quote:

---

Tim 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 2:12
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

---

Again, you left out the rest of that passage. Verses 13-15 state:(KJV) 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.(NLT) 13 For God made Adam first, and afterward he made Eve. 14 And it was the woman, not Adam, who was deceived by Satan, and sin was the result. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing and by continuing to live in faith, love, holiness, and modesty.So this is decreeing that women will find their joy through the role of a strong family. This is unpopular in modern culture, but popular to those who believe. If the woman agrees to this arrangement, then there isn't an issue of oppression, but it is a matter of love for her family.

quote:

---

Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

---

That passage is an instruction for a spirit-guided marriage. Notice the term "spirit-guided", as in those who believe in and embrace the spirit. It doesn't really have any practical application for those who are living in a worldly marriage. Verse 21 of that chapter says "submit to one another out of reverence for Christ". If a couple has no reverence for Christ, then this passage is meaningless to them.------------------
What is intelligence without wisdom?

quote:

---

Can you forbid your wife from doing something?

---

Yes, if there is conviction in our hearts not to do it, and there is evidence in God's word to not do it.

quote:

---

Can she forbid you from doing something?

---

Yes, see above.------------------
What is intelligence without wisdom?

quote:

---

OK, but I thought that the wife was not supposed to lead the husband. If the husband is forbidden from doing something by the wife, is she not leading him at that time?

---

If my wife uses a portion of the Word to point out something I may be doing wrong (or if she uses common sense for that matter), then I'm going to listen to her and converse about making it right. She's not leading, I'm just listening to reason in that case. I recognize that I'm a fallible human being like everyone else and am not always going to be right. I encourage her to bring something up if something is bothering her, and we will discuss it.

quote:

---

Oh, and I am not talking about things that are specifically mentioned in, say, the 10 commandments, or in your marriage vows.

---

Hmmm, I was. Ok, so you just mean little things like where to keep the toothpaste? Those types of things are agreed upon. But when it means critical choices for the family, I tend to lead as Christ would lead his church. It's simply my role as a strong husband.

quote:

---

I am talking about things like forbidding the wife to wear a certain lenght of skirt, or maybe forbidding her from reading certain books, or something like that.

---

That's just nonsense. Of course there is common sense. I wouldn't want my wife going out into public in a skimpy lingerie dress, just like she wouldn't want me running around in speedo shorts with nothing else on.As for other stuff, we both discuss what would be unbeneficial or even harmful to our marriage and our family and agree to eliminate them or even the appearance of them.Where I tend to lead is when I want to keep our relationship on track biblically. I'll examine a situation and say "ok, this is what the bible says, and this is what works and doesn't work." And then we'll talk it over. And she typically respects my final decision. You must understand though that she believes in the faith as I do, so we're both on the same wavelength mentally and spiritually. There is agreement, not suppression.------------------
What is intelligence without wisdom?

quote:

---

It seems like she is doing the exact same thing as you do when you are leading her, except that you don't want to think of it as leadership, but as "taking advice".

---

That's because it is, and there is a difference between leadership and advice. Even the president has advisors.

quote:

---

This seems to mean that if she had a different interpretation of the Bible than you, or if you think she is wrong, then you could pretty much declare her wrong or mistaken and that would be the end of it.

---

That is simply not the case. We don't have different interpretations of the bible.

quote:

---

I am not saying this is what you have done or even would do, but, in your arrangement, you technically could, correct?

---

Ok. Yeah, like I said, that doesn't happen.

quote:

---

But what happens when you think you are right and she thinks you aren't? Do you always get to decide who is right?

---

No, I don't. I leave that up to God. He reveals to us what is right in our situations through His Word and the spirit.

quote:

---

A: Oh, and I am not talking about things that are specifically mentioned in, say, the 10 commandments, or in your marriage vows.

​

Satcomm: Hmmm, I was. Ok, so you just mean little things like where to keep the toothpaste? Those types of things are agreed upon. But when it means critical choices for the family, I tend to lead as Christ would lead his church. It's simply my role as a strong husband.

​

A: I am talking about things like forbidding the wife to wear a certain lenght of skirt, or maybe forbidding her from reading certain books, or something like that.

---

That's typically not the case, nor is it an issue, in our marriage. She is reserved in her attire as she chooses not to wear skimpy outfits and the like. This is not from my influence, but this is simply who she is and what she believes.As for books and stuff, her and I feel the same about certain things that we should not embrace. This is not from suppression, but from her conscience decision to follow her faith in the matter.

quote:

---

No, I mean bigger things that where to keep the toothpaste.

​

I mean things like could you forbid your wife from reading a book that you thought she shouldn't, or could you forbid her from associating with her friend because you thought that friend was bad for her? Could you forbid your wife from working if you wanted to?

---

That is not the case. We don't disagree on those things.

quote:

---

So, if I am interpreting you correctly, you seem to be saying that you feel that you are better at interpreting the Bible than your wife.

---

No, it is not an issue of superiority. My wife and I both believe in the same thing and are on the same page. We both interpret the bible the same and respect everything it says. It says that a man is to lead his family, therefore I accept that role to support a healthy family. And it works.

quote:

---

One could also interpret your statements as implying that your wife (all Christian wives?) are, by the unfortunate event of being born female, are not capable of or worthy of interpreting what God wants you both to do. It might be understood that wives would lead the family into ruin if they were to lead the family, bad things could happen if the family was run democratically, without a single male leader.

---

You're not going to like my answer on this one. Your statement is correct with the exception of this: "are not capable of or worthy of interpreting what God wants you both to do." And it has been proven historically in both the bible and the church. Women are capable of interpreting the plans God has for them, however are more prone to other temptations. This is not inferiority, but simply a difference between men and women. It does not mean a woman is inferior to a man. We recognize that, in our case, it's not a woman's role to lead the family, nor is it a woman's role to lead a church.I'm sure you dislike this concept and you are free to do so. Just because you dislike our views does not mean that they are wrong.

quote:

---

I am very interested in what happens when, atypically, your wife doesn't respect your final descision.

---

That simply does not happen. I could understand that happening if I married an atheist or someone with totally different ideals than myself, however that is not the case in our marriage.

quote:

---

What is this power? What exactly is the power that the man has that the woman does not? That "you lead" doesn't tell me much.

---

You're misinterpreting the role of a man. It's not "power" over the woman. It's not "superiority" over the woman. It's a recognization of the established differences between male and female. My wife and I are on the same page in that understanding and choose to embrace it because the bible shows that it's supposed to be that way, and it works for us. When I lead my family, I'm not suppressing it. Modern popular culture seems to portray it that way.------------------
What is intelligence without wisdom?

Yeah, so you don't like spiritual and biblical marriages. Why all the big fuss? We don't impose our way of life upon people like you. We merely tell you what works and leave it up to you to decide.EDIT:You indicate that Christian wives are not respected. I'm telling you that you're wrong and you don't understand. I'm also telling you that Christian marriages do work and can be very happy relationships.It's been proven to me based on my own marriage and lifestyle. And it's irrelevant whether or not I can prove it to you or anyone else.------------------
What is intelligence without wisdom?[This message has been edited by Satcomm, 03-08-2003]

Hehe, I think I struck a nerve.I became silent because this topic didn't particularly interest me anymore. The same thing was being said from both sides over and over again. I accepted the conclusions that:1) You don't understand.
2) You lash out and attack what you don't understand.
3) Christian marriages do have the capacity of working, regardless of statistics.
4) Many Christian wives are well respected and are not "held back" or "suppressed".
5) It's unnecessary for me or anyone else to "prove" it to you because your mind is already made up as to what works and what doesn't work.------------------
What is intelligence without wisdom?[This message has been edited by Satcomm, 03-10-2003]