Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Knowing God
PurpleTeddyBear
Junior Member (Idle past 6028 days)
Posts: 21
From: Brownsburg, Indiana, USA
Joined: 10-22-2006


Message 1 of 93 (358240)
10-23-2006 1:30 AM


What is a relationship with Jesus like?
How does one know this relationship is real?
Is knowing Jesus anything more than a feeling - how so?
I've never known Jesus. I'd like to know how to recognize the feelings that clearly demonstrate to you Jesus is real.
Is it the opinion of the faithful I block out these feelings, fail to acknowledge them or am unable to possess them?
Why can you know Jesus and not me?
Why has Jesus allowed you to have a relationship with him and not me? If Jesus has accepted me and entered into a relationship with me I have not seen it. I have not felt it. I have not heard it. I have no evidence it exists. Am I doing something wrong? I do not think I am bad.
My daughter is 8 - she does not know Jesus. Jesus has never reached out to her - why not? My son is 12; he does not live with me. His mother took him 1,500 miles away from me. She is religious. My son he knows Jesus. Why does Jesus talk to my son not my daughter?
In order to know Jesus I must know what to look for. I must know where to look and how to find him. The only time I had a friend I could not see was when I was 6. I feel kind of foolish entering into another relationship like this - is this feeling justified?
How do you know you know Jesus? How do you know your children know they know Jesus? Can you help me know Jesus knows me? Is it ok to know something I can not heae, see, smell, touch or taste? Is it ok to say I know I know something even if I know in this lifetime I will never have evidence to demonstrate the claims I claim to know are true - other than me stating I know it is true.
What I really want to know is how do you know you know Jesus? How do you form a relationship for something that is 'not there'(I use that loosely). How do you know Jesus loves you - what does this feel like?
This is a serious question. Possibly one of the most important questions on the forum - has it been asked. I apologize if it has. If I am asked to clarify simply put:
*How do you know Jesus loves you? When compared to love we know what does the love of Jesus feel like. I am missing it and want to recognize it.
*How do we know this is real - this feeling, emotion; this “THING” that makes us (you) know you know Jesus.
PTD
Ps
Possibly this question is not appropriate for this forum. I feel it would fit in on the Faith section. I also feel the ability for a theist to clearly articulate what 'knowing god is'. The theist also needs to demonstrate how this specific knowing is different than other knowings or feelings. Possibly we all know or feel it and simply overlook it. If this is infact the case we can no longer do this. I can no longer do it for the sake of my daughter.

We are born, we live then we die.

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Faith, posted 10-23-2006 2:11 AM PurpleTeddyBear has replied
 Message 4 by iano, posted 10-23-2006 8:15 AM PurpleTeddyBear has replied
 Message 9 by Phat, posted 10-23-2006 9:04 AM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied
 Message 11 by jar, posted 10-23-2006 10:32 AM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied
 Message 44 by mark24, posted 10-27-2006 8:51 PM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied
 Message 46 by Dubious Drewski, posted 10-28-2006 2:39 AM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied
 Message 47 by iano, posted 10-28-2006 9:03 AM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied
 Message 85 by macaroniandcheese, posted 11-08-2006 2:49 AM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied
 Message 86 by purpledawn, posted 11-08-2006 7:04 AM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied
 Message 87 by riVeRraT, posted 11-22-2006 2:46 PM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied
 Message 92 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-26-2006 1:45 PM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied

  
AdminNWR
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 93 (358243)
10-23-2006 2:03 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 3 of 93 (358246)
10-23-2006 2:11 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by PurpleTeddyBear
10-23-2006 1:30 AM


Knowing Jesus starts with believing what has been written about Him in the scriptures, and believing what He has said. If you have that, then it is a matter of living by it, obeying it. We know Him when we believe and obey, and we lose a sense of relatedness to Him when we allow our belief to wane and when we disobey. Start by reading the scriptures, the gospels, the New Testament, and believing it in true faith, acting on it.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by PurpleTeddyBear, posted 10-23-2006 1:30 AM PurpleTeddyBear has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by PurpleTeddyBear, posted 10-23-2006 8:20 AM Faith has replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 4 of 93 (358264)
10-23-2006 8:15 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by PurpleTeddyBear
10-23-2006 1:30 AM


Knowing God
This is a serious question. Possibly one of the most important questions on the forum - has it been asked. I apologize if it has. If I am asked to clarify simply put:
Its never been asked as far as I can recall. It is a very good question - especially so if Jesus is real and what he says is true.
How do we know this is real - this feeling, emotion; this “THING” that makes us (you) know you know Jesus.
Its very similar to the way we know anything is real, really. As living creatures we have 5 physical senses and have concluded for ourselves that the data which enters our brains via these 5 senses constitutes objective evidence about the reality we occupy. When we die these 5 senses cease to function. No evidence is transmitted to the organism and there is no organism to receive information. This doesn't mean the objective reality has disappeared - rather it is the sensors and the receptor for evidence which has ceased to exist.
Similarly, the position of people who are "born again" is that they become spiritually alive. Once alive then they are equipped to pick up the evidence about the reality of God in the same way as eyes pick up evidence about the nature of reality. Prior to being "born again" a person is spiritually dead to the things of God. They are like a switched off radio. The radio signal exists (God) but the radio is unable to pick up the signal because it is not turned on or tuned in.
Physically we start of alive and tuned in then die. Spiritually we start of dead and either are made alive and receptive or remain dead.
How does one know this is real? In the same way as we know that what our eyes and ears transmit to us about the world is real. We just know it. There is no proof that what our eyes and ears tranmit is true - we just know that it is.
Why has Jesus allowed you to have a relationship with him and not me? If Jesus has accepted me and entered into a relationship with me I have not seen it. I have not felt it. I have not heard it. I have no evidence it exists.
In order to know you had that relationship then you would have to have evidence for it. You would need the same assurance that you have when your eyes, ears and touch assure you about the physical reality around you. If you did not then you could never be sure that you weren't fooling yourself or subject to some delusion or other. It would have to have that same quality that lets you know what you know - irrespective of what others say. Their opinion could not influence what you know if you had evidence sufficient to convince you.
And the evidence you would have is called faith. And faith (the evidence) would be supplied to you by God. He would reveal himself to you - in other words. If he did then you would know he existed and that you have that relationship. Below is a recent post on what faith is. The key point to note is that it is not something you work up in yourself but something that he supplies to you.
A word about faith
Am I doing something wrong? I do not think I am bad.
Its not about doing anything wrong, its not about trying to be good. As far as he is concerned everybody is born 'bad'. Everybody is spiritually dead and they all need to be made spiritually alive. To be radios switched on. And he is the one who makes a person spiritually alive. He switches them on.
The way he does this is to bring the person to the point of realising that they need him. And when a person is brought to that point then he will bring them to spiritual life. The person can refuse to be brought to that point in which case they will never be brought to spiritual life. They cannot do anything to make him switch them on as such. They can only prevent him doing so.
This may sound confusing - especially given what Faith has said above. But put it this way. If you were concerned about your not having a relationship with him, if you found yourself trying to read the Bible in an effort to find him, if you found yourself asking an unbelieved in God to help you find him etc then that is a result of him putting those needs into you. He acts upon all people in this way. He attempts to bring them to see their need for him. And when they do (however this is manifest) they will cry out to him for that relationship. As as soon as they do then he acts so as to form that realtionship. If a person refuses to be convinced of their need of him then he will respect their wishes - he won't come.
What is a relationship with Jesus like?
There isn't much point in going into this too deeply. At the end of the day (no insult intended) a person who is spiritually dead to God is spiritually blind. Blindness is the predominant description of a spiritually dead person in the Bible (there is a spiritual message behind Jesus healing so many physically blind people). So explaining what it is like is like trying to explain the colour red to a physically blind person.
Peace: I can remember the morning after the night when I recognised my need for him and cried out. I sensed something had changed fundementally. There was a sense of peace about things which descended over me. Everything (irrespective of what might happen to me from now on: bike crashes, job loss, sickness, death) was going to be "okay". I subsequently read about "a peace beyond all understanding" in the Bible. We don't realise how much we actually worry about things until such time as the worry is removed
Freedom: we all have things about us which we would like to change: a short temper, an addiction, meaness, cruelty - whatever. Very often we manage to keep the worst excesses of these things in check through sheer self-control. We may be afraid of the consequences were full expression of these things were they to be seen by others. But these things sit like monkeyss on our backs: always there lurking in the background waiting to come out. One of the things he promises he will do is to transform us. "Be transformed by the renewing of your mind" says Paul in Romans 12. He actually changes our way of thinking so that these monkeys dissappear. We find we think differently about things. This is a process: sometimes things are removed straightaway, sometimes they are dissolved over time as we cooperate with him in being changed. But he promises that come hell or high water we will be changed - even if we decide to make it tough for him to do so. "If the son sets you free, you will be free indeed". Again we often don't realize how weighed down we are until the weight is removed "come to me all ye who are heavily burdened and I will give you rest" he says.
Foregiveness: we all carry around guilt and shame. More than we know. We have all done things in the past that we accept (if we are not in total denial) were wrong. That time has passed doesn't mean that the shame and guilt are gone. It just sits there and we move on - getting used to carrying the burden of it. Although it is against others we have acted it is also an offence against God. And he can forgive us that. Indeed he promises he will do so if a person has a relationship with him "If we ask, he is gracious and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness" Again it is one of those things that we won't fully realise we are burdened down with until such time as it is removed. When it is removed then we feel as if a great weight has been removed from our shoulders. And we can always avail of having that burden removed in the future when we sin and the guilt and shame come back. We only have to ask.
No fear of death: I know where I am going when I die. I might not look forward to the process of dying but I don't fear death itself. In fact I look forward to it. To be free of the shackles which make a full relationship with him impossible. When I die, there will be nothing to interfere with knowing him fully. He is very attractive and to know him more is a constant yearning. You get to hate sin because it interferes with that relationship
Love: Lets face it, loving and being loved is the greatest thing on earth. Nothing trumps it. Whilst it is nice to love kids and to have kids love back it doesn't compare to having God love you. Its the same kind of thing as human love only more. There is nothing you can do to make him love you less, nothing you can do to make him love you more. To have God let you know he loves you is something to behold. And it goes on forever. He will never fall out of love with you. Never go off with someone else.
These are but some of what it is to have relationship with him. It starts the day you are made spiritually alive and continues on to the time of your physical death. You don't have to worry to much about intellectual difficulties. God is interested in what you heart has to say about him. If your heart is responding to his call on you then he will draw you to himself. Intellectually, I was kicking and spitting all the way up to the moment I believed. My heart was saying different than my intellect.
The link below brings you to a thread about the book of Romans where the gospel and the need for it is explained in the most complete way in the Bible. You are not permitted to post in that thread (it is for myself and Larni only). But it might help clarify some things (amongst which: you are in fact "bad" (unrighteous) in Gods eyes and Gods aim is to make you "good" (righteous). It is his job to do so - for you cannot do so no matter how hard you try)
How the gospel works
God bless...
Edited by iano, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by PurpleTeddyBear, posted 10-23-2006 1:30 AM PurpleTeddyBear has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by PurpleTeddyBear, posted 10-23-2006 8:26 AM iano has replied
 Message 8 by PurpleTeddyBear, posted 10-23-2006 8:44 AM iano has replied
 Message 91 by Jaderis, posted 11-26-2006 6:57 AM iano has not replied

  
PurpleTeddyBear
Junior Member (Idle past 6028 days)
Posts: 21
From: Brownsburg, Indiana, USA
Joined: 10-22-2006


Message 5 of 93 (358265)
10-23-2006 8:20 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Faith
10-23-2006 2:11 AM


Weak answer
Since when does having a relationship with anyone ever have anything to do with reading and believing their biography. Why/how did you form that conclusion? I do not think you simply misunderstood my question. That was a terribly answer. You, ”cherry picked', read what you wanted to read and ignored the rest - shame on you.
Can you define, describe and explain what a "sense of relatedness" is? When I have a sense of relatedness to Christ I want to know I know it! What could be more important?
Is this relatedness with Jesus the same as the relatedness I feel with my mother? Or is it more like the relatedness I share with my cousin I have never seen? Again - what is this 'relatedness '(knowing) like. How do I recognize this internal feeling?
PS
You get an F. I would request everyone better address the question, ask for clarification or not answer.
PPS - sort of off topic. But, I am curious. According to your logic:
Is this 'knowing him'(Jesus) restricted to just Scripture? Or could I get this "feeling" this "sense of relatedness" this "knowing I know him" or this “gut instinct” if I just read non-canonical gospel, other written material (which may be undiscovered), writings by historians and the Talmud? Or can this “thing”(sense of relatedness - LET’S CALL IT SOR from now on) come only from reading the NT?
Their seem to be many specific rules to obtaining an SOR with Jesus. Can we lay them all out - THANKS!

We are born, we live then we die.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Faith, posted 10-23-2006 2:11 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Phat, posted 10-23-2006 9:19 AM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied
 Message 13 by Faith, posted 10-23-2006 12:04 PM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied
 Message 93 by DivineBeginning, posted 12-07-2006 8:56 AM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied

  
PurpleTeddyBear
Junior Member (Idle past 6028 days)
Posts: 21
From: Brownsburg, Indiana, USA
Joined: 10-22-2006


Message 6 of 93 (358268)
10-23-2006 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by iano
10-23-2006 8:15 AM


Re: Knowing God
Sorry, I did not quote my last post. It was to 'the previous poster' not you, Author. I skimmed your answer and feel it demands a rely. However, I must go to work. I will respond by the close of the day. Thank you for taking the time.
Edited by PurpleTeddyBear, : No reason given.

We are born, we live then we die.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by iano, posted 10-23-2006 8:15 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by iano, posted 10-23-2006 8:33 AM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 7 of 93 (358270)
10-23-2006 8:33 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by PurpleTeddyBear
10-23-2006 8:26 AM


Re: Knowing God
In your own time PTB

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by PurpleTeddyBear, posted 10-23-2006 8:26 AM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied

  
PurpleTeddyBear
Junior Member (Idle past 6028 days)
Posts: 21
From: Brownsburg, Indiana, USA
Joined: 10-22-2006


Message 8 of 93 (358271)
10-23-2006 8:44 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by iano
10-23-2006 8:15 AM


Re: Knowing God
quote:
Its very similar to the way we know anything is real, really
quote:
nature of reality
quote:
spiritually dead to the things of God
quote:
here is no proof that what our eyes and ears tranmit is true - we just know that it is.
quote:
had that relationship then you would have to have evidence for it.
quote:
**evidence you would have is called faith**
quote:
everybody is born 'bad'.
quote:
To be radios switched on.
quote:
He attempts to bring them to see their need for him
quote:
they will cry out to him for that relationship
quote:
Blindness is the predominant description of a spiritually dead person
quote:
**I sensed something had changed fundamentally
quote:
Everything (irrespective of what might happen to me from now on: bike crashes, job loss, sickness, death) was going to be "okay".
quote:
"Be transformed by the renewing of your mind" says Paul in Romans 12
quote:
This is a process: sometimes things are removed straightaway, sometimes they are dissolved over time as we cooperate with him in being changed. But he promises that come hell or high water we will be changed - even if we decide to make it tough for him to do so. "If the son sets you free, you will be free indeed". Again we often don't realize how weighed down we are until the weight is removed "come to me all ye who are heavily burdened and I will give you rest" he says.
I apologize I really have to goto work. However, your post was amazing - I loved it. Please do not take this negative but I do feel as if I am in the twilight zone. I feel like a kid playing dungeons and dragons - you are the dragon master, BEAM ME UP SCOTTIE! Please keep in mind you did say,
quote:
This may sound confusing
Oh yes, I am confused now! Hopefully you can help with that.
Lets consider the above(I got way through your post). Other than the reference to Paul are these above quotes anything more than your personal opinion? Can you back them up with reference in the scripture which comes directly from god - not man. Thus far it seems important to know Jesus I must read this book - the bible. Let’s discuss it but not get too off topic. Can you reference the above comments? they just subjective opinion? I will be late for work now but loved that post!
PPS sorry, sorry I am in a rush. The above quotes all may not have foundation in the bible. These are just topics we must discuss and I wanted to give you time to digest the topics I had interest in. So, I understand all the quotes may not need be referenced. Please deal with those that can.
Edited by PurpleTeddyBear, : No reason given.
Edited by AdminPD, : Style

We are born, we live then we die.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by iano, posted 10-23-2006 8:15 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by iano, posted 10-23-2006 10:54 AM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied
 Message 14 by AdminPD, posted 10-23-2006 12:17 PM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 9 of 93 (358275)
10-23-2006 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by PurpleTeddyBear
10-23-2006 1:30 AM


My two cents (or is it two mites?)
Hi, Purple Teddy Bear---welcome to EvC Forum! These questions that you ask are quite important and many people will give you many opinions on what they all mean. I feel empathy for you and will try and explain how I feel as honestly as possible, but both you and I know that IF God is actually real, the ultimate answer will come to you from God and not from me.
PurpleTeddyBear writes:
What is a relationship with Jesus like?
Phat writes:
Its being able to talk to the air or to the empty room and having a comforting feeling that you are not talking to yourself. Its feeling a growing love inside of you that affirms your worth and your special value to a Creator who is a Father and a friend to us. Its being able to acknowledge the arguments against religion, the Bible, and spirituality without worrying about whether the God you met was a figment of your imagination or whether He was actually someone you met.
How does one know this relationship is real?
Phat writes:
I clearly remember the day that I became aware that God was real. While it is true that I was at a charismatic church at the time, I believe to this day that God reached me despite the church and the dysfunction of organized religion. Your son may well have been involved in a religious environment, and by accepting Jesus he may have been positively reinforced by the peer group around him. Some people believe that God is in everybody and that we need but find Him within us. Others believe that the Spirit of God is with everybody but that we need to ask Him to come in to our hearts.
Is knowing Jesus anything more than a feeling - how so?
Phat writes:
To me it is more than a feeling. It is a conscious belief. Its a relative truth, yet it can never be expressed to the world as an absolute fact. Only God can do that, if and when the time is right.
I've never known Jesus. I'd like to know how to recognize the feelings that clearly demonstrate to you Jesus is real.
Phat writes:
I can share my story with you. I can tell you of the many times that I felt the presence of God. I can also tell you many other times where there was no feeling and no awareness. It was those times that I prayed by Faith.
You may not have any confirming feelings. I believe that you will have an awareness, but I can't promise you that. Many people let their logic get in the way of their belief. They have more faith in human wisdom and rationality than they do in a God that they can't see. At least they are honest!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by PurpleTeddyBear, posted 10-23-2006 1:30 AM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 10 of 93 (358277)
10-23-2006 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by PurpleTeddyBear
10-23-2006 8:20 AM


Re: Weak answer
PurpleTeddyBear writes:
Their seem to be many specific rules to obtaining an SOR with Jesus. Can we lay them all out - THANKS!
I can but give you my beliefs:
  • The Bible is a guide. It is not word for word literal, but it is thought for thought literal, in my opinion.

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 5 by PurpleTeddyBear, posted 10-23-2006 8:20 AM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied

      
    jar
    Member (Idle past 394 days)
    Posts: 34026
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004


    Message 11 of 93 (358284)
    10-23-2006 10:32 AM
    Reply to: Message 1 by PurpleTeddyBear
    10-23-2006 1:30 AM


    Don't worry about it, it isn't that important.
    What you have told us so far is that for some reason you think you want to know Jesus but that right now neither you or your son do know Jesus. In addition you also said that your wife and daughter do know Jesus.
    First, why would you want to know Jesus? It really isn't that important and is often not all that pleasant?
    Second, folk that tell you they "Know" Jesus as opposed to just believing they know Jesus are pretty much just fooling themselves. It is unlikely that any of us can know Jesus or GOD or the Holy Spirit while we are living.
    Don't worry about whether or not you "Know Jesus". You and your son try to do what is right and not do what is wrong. When you do screw up, admit it to yourself, try to make amends and try to not do that in the future. If you guys do that you will have a great life here, and in the afterlife.
    You can be sure that GOD loves you, even if you are unaware of his love. Nobody is born damned.
    It really is as simple as that.

    Aslan is not a Tame Lion

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by PurpleTeddyBear, posted 10-23-2006 1:30 AM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied

      
    iano
    Member (Idle past 1941 days)
    Posts: 6165
    From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
    Joined: 07-27-2005


    Message 12 of 93 (358290)
    10-23-2006 10:54 AM
    Reply to: Message 8 by PurpleTeddyBear
    10-23-2006 8:44 AM


    Re: Knowing God
    I feel like a kid playing dungeons and dragons - you are the dragon master, BEAM ME UP SCOTTIE!
    To be honest I've never played it. But if you have a question I'll endeavor to answer.
    Lets consider the above(I got way through your post). Other than the reference to Paul are these above quotes anything more than your personal opinion? Can you back them up with reference in the scripture which comes directly from god - not man.
    There is biblical argument to back up the notions I summarized in my post. The trouble is that these things are foundational issues - and large ones at that. It is a relatively easy affair to pluck a couple of verses from the Bible that tells us that men are by nature, spiritually dead. But someone else could pluck a couple of verses out that would indicate something else. In order to bolster the intellectual/literary case one would need to engage on a deeper study. Books are a better way to do that than a web forum. If you wanted to I could find some links that explain what I would explain in answer to core questions such as the ones you seem to have. There is no point in re-inventing the wheel - especially if someone can explain it better than I can.
    Thus far it seems important (that) to know Jesus I must read this book - the bible. Let’s discuss it but not get too off topic. Can you reference the above comments? they just subjective opinion?
    I'm not sure what the topic is to be honest. I can tell a person what its like to know God. And I can point to things in the Bible that would support that what I experience is what the Bible says a person will experience. I can say that I experienced a peace about things - that everything was going to be okay. And can point to the Bible saying that a person will experience a peace beyond all understanding.
    Personally, I don't think reading the Bible is critical to coming to know Jesus in the first instance. If you are drawn to do so then by all means do so (or resist that drawing if finding yourself drawn: "some other time perhaps - I really must do that shopping"). But you may be drawn in other ways (and resist that drawing). Having said that, you can get to know something more of his character by reading about him. But knowing about him is not the same thing as knowing him
    Someone could read a book about my mother and find out all about her. But the way to know her really is not by reading a book about her. But many have come to know him by their reading of the Bible. Martin Luther was converted on reading line in Romans. How and when and by what means that happens is less important than it happening in the first place.
    one last point:
    Can you back them up with reference in the scripture which comes directly from god - not man.
    Are you accepting (for the sake of discussion) that the Bible is the word of God. Or do you mean only things that directly come from Gods mouth (as quoted in the Bible) are "from God" and "not man"?)
    Edited by iano, : No reason given.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 8 by PurpleTeddyBear, posted 10-23-2006 8:44 AM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 15 by Straggler, posted 10-23-2006 12:20 PM iano has not replied
     Message 16 by Faith, posted 10-23-2006 12:21 PM iano has replied

      
    Faith 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
    Posts: 35298
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001


    Message 13 of 93 (358299)
    10-23-2006 12:04 PM
    Reply to: Message 5 by PurpleTeddyBear
    10-23-2006 8:20 AM


    Re: Weak answer
    I told you how to know Christ, which is what you asked. Describing feelings won't do it. The only way to meet Christ is in the Bible -- believing it -- there is no other way. You have to know who it is you want to know before you can know him, otherwise whatever feelings you get may not be Christ at all. AND you must be born again.
    Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
    Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
    Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 5 by PurpleTeddyBear, posted 10-23-2006 8:20 AM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied

      
    AdminPD
    Inactive Administrator


    Message 14 of 93 (358302)
    10-23-2006 12:17 PM
    Reply to: Message 8 by PurpleTeddyBear
    10-23-2006 8:44 AM


    Welcome to EvC
    Welcome PurpleTeddyBear,
    Glad you decided to add to our diversity. We have a wide variety of forums for your debating pleasure, but I warn you it can become habit forming.
    I suggest you take the time to check out the style guide link and practice. Replying and quoting appropriately will help others understand your posts and enable them to respond better.
    In the purple signature box below, you'll find some links that will help make your journey here pleasant.
    Pay particular attention to our Forum Guidelines and all will go well.
    Again welcome and fruitful debating. Purple

    Usually, in a well-conducted debate, speakers are either emotionally uncommitted or can preserve sufficient detachment to maintain a coolly academic approach.-- Encylopedia Brittanica, on debate

    Links for comments on moderation procedures and/or responding to admin msgs:
  • General discussion of moderation procedures
  • Thread Reopen Requests
  • Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum
    Helpful links for New Members:
    Forum Guidelines, [thread=-19,-112], [thread=-17,-45], and Practice Makes Perfect

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 8 by PurpleTeddyBear, posted 10-23-2006 8:44 AM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied

      
    Straggler
    Member
    Posts: 10333
    From: London England
    Joined: 09-30-2006


    Message 15 of 93 (358303)
    10-23-2006 12:20 PM
    Reply to: Message 12 by iano
    10-23-2006 10:54 AM


    Re: Knowing God
    Why Jesus? Why not any one of a number of Gods. Past or present.
    The whole problem with "knowing God" is that those raised in Christian environment will "know" Jesus. Thise raised in Islamic environments will "know" Allah. Those raised in a Jewish environment will "know" Yahweh. A Hindu may well claim to "know" any number of gods. Very probably there were ancient Greeks who genuinely "knew" they had been chosen by Zeus!
    Each belief set equally convinced of it's truth and it's knowledge. Each belief set incompatible to a lesser or greater degree with the asserted truths of every other. Each belief set founded on equally unprovable and nonsensical claims.
    Virgin birth, resurrection, transmutation, sin, Genesis etc. etc. etc. It's all just rehashed myth and legend gone amok.
    The only sane response is to treat them all with a healthy dose of scepticism and to rely on evidence based knowledge instead.
    When those of faith claim that - faith is evidence and that all the evidence they need is faith - you know they are on dodgy ground. It is a ridiculous circular argument put in place to sustain a ridiculous set of assertions.
    I don't doubt your faith. I just do not understand that level of gullibility.
    OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein.
    AdminPD
    Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 12 by iano, posted 10-23-2006 10:54 AM iano has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 20 by Phat, posted 10-23-2006 2:54 PM Straggler has replied

      
    Newer Topic | Older Topic
    Jump to:


    Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

    ™ Version 4.2
    Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024