Women and the Fundamentalist View of Marriage

I see.Your reason for saying that Christianity, and not Feminism, was responsible for women's rights, is because in the 1800s, there were Christian movements......that said it was okay for women to be school-teachers.Out of curiosity, were there any other fields in which Christianity blazed a trail for women who wanted to bust out of their traditional roles? Nursing, perhaps? Or maybe housekeeping?Anyway, you're backpedalling. In post 298, you suggested that Christianity, and not Feminism, was responsible for Woman's Suffrage, and that the female ministers of the gospel who were responsible for women's rights predated Feminism.I fail to see how your example supports either of these points.Please explain. In direct terms.

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"I fail to comprehend your indignation, sir. I've simply made the logical deduction that you are a liar."
-Spock

Sorry, but if you are going to misrepresent what I wrote, I have no interest in discussing this with you.Female preachers are not school-teachers. I suggest you take some women's studies courses in history, or at a minimum read up on the issue.This message has been edited by randman, 01-19-2006 03:24 PM

Your example was: "Women ministers, such as Phebe Palmer, and revival movements held that females could preach and teach."I've misrepresented nothing. But I'm sure that not discussing it with me is easier than supporting your point.

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"I fail to comprehend your indignation, sir. I've simply made the logical deduction that you are a liar."
-Spock

Pastoring churches and preaching in churches as a minister of the gospel is a wee bit more authoritative than being a school-teacher, but then again, I suspect you knew that, didn't you?

So let me see if I've got this one straight.Your reason for saying that Christianity, and not Feminism, was responsible for women's rights is now that were female ministers in the 1800s who said it was okay for there to be female ministers?Well, it's good to know that Christianity was fully willing to allow women to say that Christianity was good. That was really big of them.

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"I fail to comprehend your indignation, sir. I've simply made the logical deduction that you are a liar."
-Spock

My reason is I have actually taken some time to learn about the history of the woman's movement, something you have not apparently, and like all who are knowledgeable in this area, recognize the role that women preachers played.Specifically, in a lot of ways, the woman's movement grew out of abolitionism and revivalism which had it's roots among a certion portion of the ministry. It's no accident, for example, that Oberlin College was the first coeducational facility and that Finney, one of the more prominent revivalists in American history, presided over the Divinity school at the time, and later took over as president.

Excuse me, but you did not say that women preachers played a role in women's rights. You said that "Feminism didn't exist until after women were granted equal rights in many areas, such as woman's suffrage", and that "The historical impetus for women's equality stemmed from Christianity."In other words, you said that it was Christianity, and not Feminism, that was responsible for women's rights.You are now backpedalling. And somehow managing to be smarmy about it.And your only concrete examples are that Christianity said it was okay for women to say that Christianity was good, and that Charles Finney took over as president of Oberlin after they went coeducational.Fun tidbit about Oberlin, by the way... the guy who did most of the administrative work during Finney's tenure as president was a fellow named James Fairchild. He then took over as President after Finney's resignation.He was also an abolitionist. And a staunch opponent of Woman's Suffrage.This message has been edited by [Dan's Clever Alias], 01-19-2006 04:48 PM

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"I fail to comprehend your indignation, sir. I've simply made the logical deduction that you are a liar."
-Spock

quote:

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...and that the head of the Oberlin Divinity school took over as President after they went coeducational.

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Oh, shit. Now we're going to get randman's theories how time isn't really linear, or whatever.

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"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

Dan, on the feminism issue, I suppose it depends on how you define the term, but the simple fact is the woman's movement grew out of Christianity. There is a reason Lucretia Mott was a Quaker and that Quakers had a long history in practice and theology of accepting women as equals.The sad fact is you just do not want to credit the role of Christianity out of personal bias, not from historical understanding.

Women being treated as equals grew out of revivalist Christianity, such as kicked off the Quakers. It's a simple fact of history.

So, your support for your argument is now that it's a "simple fact."Gosh... can't argue against that kind of rock solid reasoning. Ah, Lucretia Mott. Let's see what she had to say on the subject, shall we?

quote:

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He allows her in Church, as well as State,
but a subordinate position,
claiming Apostolic authority for her exclusion from the ministry,
and, with some exceptions,
from any public participation in the affairs of the Church.

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See above, re: your backpedalling.

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"I fail to comprehend your indignation, sir. I've simply made the logical deduction that you are a liar."
-Spock

what amazes me is that he does not mention how many christian groups now allow female ministers. i think like four or something.

women were fighting for suggrage LONG before abolition. at least american abolition. and you sir, are sorely mistaken. but i'll warn you. people don't pay much attention to academic women's studies here. and no women's studies class would support your position anyways.