|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Tell Him Jesus Sent You | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2190 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: I would say that religions and their dogma are an attempt to define, measure, manipulate, and control god. The very idea that we owe any proposed god respect or allegience is nothing more than religious dogma, invented and used to control the followers of that religion.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
RiverRat writes:
People say that in a room full of people, who are Spirit filled, you too can feel it. But there are some who don't feel a thing (I was one of them).Phat writes: I don't necessarily think that anyone can usually tell...but there have been times when the wisdom emanating from someone was unmistakably not theirs alone. I guess I am confusing too many thoughts here, and I don't have the time to write them out today, but do you think we should preach the gospel? (not asking how). Or is it a waste of time? Do we even need the bible? Because the bible seems to be a big point of confusion. Not that the bible itself is confusing, but the people interpreting it are confused about it. Bottom line, for me...is personal integrity and consistency. If I find that I truly want to make a relationship with someone rather than sell a product, I have better relationships form that are more long lasting.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Nator writes: So you are saying that Man creates God in his own image? The very idea that we owe any proposed god respect or allegiance is nothing more than religious dogma, invented and used to control the followers of that religion. What makes you so convinced that God exists and is like a patient though firm teacher, expecting you to come out of your comfort zones and open up to, if not embrace, an unmeasurable unverifiable faith concept?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2190 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Not at all. There are some Vedic Sandscrit writings that indicate such ideas from the 7th century BCE, and the Greek, Aristarchus, had a heliocentric model in the 3rd century BCE (that was possibly based upon even earlier Islamic astronomy and math. As usual, only the Christian European history is remembered.
quote: That is such crap, Phat! Do I really need to list all of the pre-Christ religions and cultures that considered humans to be part of nature, and tiny and insignificant in the Grand Scheme of Things? In fact, I would say that the rise of violent monotheistic religions such as Judaism tended to inflate humans as much more important that anything else on Earth, and one particular tribe of humans greater than everyone else.
quote: Yeah, especially when nothing at all about existence appears to be influenced by any active deity.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2190 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: I'd say that religions always do this. If gods are actually a creation of our minds, or are real, is unknowable.
quote: Can you please try to formulate this again? I can't make sense of it.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
When the idea of a God who is neither able to be controlled, defined, measured or manipulated comes up, however, many people do not feel comfortable with such an idea. The idea that we owe allegiance or at least respect to such a Being rubs many people the wrong way. I don't know about a lot of pholks here, but my desire not to follow God stems from not wanting to be controlled by a Bumbling Fool who creates and governs in a rather alcoholic manner. I mean, how many leaders do you think would allow their citizens to break laws, deny the government, set up their own governments, break free in large chunks from the main land masses of their countries, etc? Either He truly does not care--in which case I feel no obligation to care in return--, or He simply is unable to keep it all together--in which case, I'd rather side with Satan, who clearly has the situation under control. J0N1CU5 Edited by Jonicus Maximus, : Changed bumbling fool to Bumbling Fool (out of respect, of course) ;-)--&--other minor grammar issues.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 436 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
If I find that I truly want to make a relationship with someone rather than sell a product, I have better relationships form that are more long lasting. I couldn't agree more, relationships are the key. I always liked you phat, your a great person.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Jonicus writes: Why are these the only two options? You basically have concluded that since God does not rule with an iron phist He is thus inferior to Satan...whom you say you prefer (ludicrous, I might add) or that God is uncaring. You have left out the option that God cares and is quite capable of being God with or without your approval...
Either He truly does not care--in which case I feel no obligation to care in return--, or He simply is unable to keep it all together--in which case, I'd rather side with Satan, who clearly has the situation under control.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
Phat, this all goes back to the problem of evil, and you can't have an almighty God who is also all-good in a world where there is clearly evil. Let's look at it this way: (let x = "everything")
P)God never does wrong.P)God does x. C)x is not wrong. BUT!, we know that x IS wrong--unless you think Hitler's genocide, slave triangles, deforestation, etc. are not wrong--(at least not in its entirety). So... either God isn't all too good, or He doesn't control everything--or rather, anything that's bad. Take your pick. J0N1CU5 Edited by Jonicus Maximus, : grammar/wording
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
God has the ability to be in control of everything, I would assume...yet he clearly is not. I would say that every move I make is done either in communion with Him or in communion with the other spirits. Its up to me which gang I choose to run with...NO?
Edited by Phat, : finished the incomplete sentence that I previously had left dangling.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Your premise is faulty.
P)God never does wrong. P)God does x. C)x is not wrong. What you are saying is that God does something that people know to be wrong. Then you go on to list events that either people did or that nature did. Neither people nor nature are God. We can conclude that God does not control everything...at least not forcefully.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes: God has the ability to be in control of everything, I would assume...yet he clearly is not. Ah, the Bart Simpson defense: "I could do that, but I don't wanna." How do you tell the difference between a god who doesn't do eveything and a god who can't do anything?
I would say that every move I make is done either in communion with Him or in communion with the other spirits. So, if god doesn't do everything, mightn't I be better off going with one of the other spirits? Maybe one of them can do more than god does do. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
kuresu Member (Idle past 2533 days) Posts: 2544 From: boulder, colorado Joined: |
as phat says, your premise is faulty.
Why? what is evil to god? what is good? very few claim to understand the nature of god, so why are you putting your views on god? oh, and the genocides were good, so is deforestation, so was the slave triangle, so have all the massacres and forced migrations ad infinitum. (note: I do not think so) It all depends on who you ask. so clearly there is not even an absolute definition as to what is evil or not. and your premise really relies on absolutes. another problem--does evil = wrong? not every time, i would argue. It is wrong of me to skip class, but is that evil? It is wrong of me to stereotype people, yet is that evil? Is it wrong to kill people, or evil too? Because god has killed a lot of people (assuming OT god here). But the act wasn't evil in nature--he was ridding the world of evil. a better premise would be:P)god never does evil P)god does X C) X is not evil. you have a twice faulty syllogism (and yes, my update is also faulty, because it relies on an absolute definition of what is evil, when such does not exist).
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
CTD Member (Idle past 5889 days) Posts: 253 Joined:
|
I think this all boils down to blaming God for the actions of others because He created them with free will. By definition, free will allows the possibility that they won't always do what is right. But somehow, the blame for wrong actions gets shifted from the wrongdoers to the very One who is fully capable of making things right in the end.
I can't agree with shifting responsibility in this manner. When the guilty party is known, why do they always point their finger at someone else? Who can respect such people?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Ringo writes: Actually, I think thats precisely what we do every day. Our day is one vast game of musical chairs. When the music stops, or if it were to stop, which chair would we be sitting in? We become the choices that we make. Life is one vast continuum of choices. So, if god doesn't do everything, mightn't I be better off going with one of the other spirits? Maybe one of them can do more than god does do. Often, we do choose one of the other spirits because it makes us feel better for the moment. As long as we are alive, we can freely vacillate between the Holy Spirit and the pantheon of imposters....but wre we ever to die, the music would simply stop and we would find ourselves cozied up to the spirit we had chosen. I like to know who I'm close to, thats for sure!
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024