The context of these scriptures tells a larger story.
NIV writes:
John 13:33-38--"My children, I will be with you only a little longer. You will look for me, and
just as I told the Jews, so I tell you now: Where I am going, you cannot come.
Phat writes:
Why could they not come? Perhaps they lacked something?...
"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By
this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." Simon Peter asked him, "Lord, where are you going?"
Jesus replied, "Where I am going, you cannot follow now, but you will follow later."
Phat writes:
The promise was made that the Disciples would someday be able to go where Jesus was going.
Peter asked, "Lord, why can't I follow you now? I will lay down my life for you."
Then Jesus answered, "Will you really lay down your life for me? I tell you the truth, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times!
Notice also that while the Disciples were indeed Jewish, Jesus differentiated them from "the Jews". Dispensationalist Theology has three distinct groups of people. The Jews. The Little Flock(Disciples) and The Gentiles...now known as the Body of Christ which comes out of the Church.
Brennakimi writes:
this is something i have noticed recently as i have shifted more and more towards the
them rather than part of the main body of christianity. through this journey where i have needed love and support i have gotten anything but from those who are supposed to be 'born of my same father'. i have become a bastard and an outcast.
You have been hurt by organized religion. You have seen the hypochristians and the pretenders. That is why, like then, the church is not ready to
go where Jesus was going. People always wonder why the Rapture and the Last Day prophecies don't come to pass.
NIV writes:
2 Peter 3:3-6--First of all, you must understand that in the last days
scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the
earth was formed out of water and by water.
Even a scientist would agree that the main element that makes a barren rock of a planet into an "earth-type life bearing region is water!
Brennakimi writes:
and so while i see that christ loves the outcast and takes time to discuss reality and real problems with them, i see that those who claim to follow him are more interested in discussing their own preconceived notions of how i'm a terrible person.
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
and
Jam 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of [his] brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
and
1Jo 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
and
1Jo 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels [of compassion] from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
and
1Jo 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
These scriptures prove the basic argument that the majority of people who make up the church are not ready to
go where Jesus went.
1Cr 5:1--But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
This scripture
can be read as being judgemental by aloof "Christians" who consider themselves better than other people. It can also be explained as a body of believers adhering to basic standards and watching the company that they allow to influence them. We all have friend who struggle with alcohol, drugs, emotional hang-ups, and other issues. We choose not to hang out with them on a daily basis as they don't help our focus (If we are being led by the Spirit) BUT...we are still commanded to love them and not to shun them. For what we do to the least we do to Jesus.
2Th 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us....
2Th 3:14-15 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet count [him] not as an enemy, but admonish [him] as a brother.
Yes. We are to guide and admonish those who struggle. (That would include all of us, as we all struggle with
something!
Brennakimi writes:
i think the point i'm trying to make is that christ said we are to love one another, to love our brothers. christ said also to love our enemies. i think the point is that our enemies are now our brothers.
Great point! The only enemy that we have is the rogue "spirit" of pride, disobedience, and greed.
Brenn writes:
since we are all equal in our sin and our tendancy to sin against one another, we should have no enemies since enemy suggests the superiority of the one.
Yes, and there IS only One. The Holy Spirit!
NIV writes:
Eph 6:12-13-- For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
It blows my mind to imagine such a literal spiritual conflict, yet I see it every day in my own attitudes and the attitudes of others! Sometimes I am a downright jerk! As Paul said,
NIV writes:
Rom 7:15-16-- I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
Spiritual conflict is an inevitable part of the human Psyche!
CSPjr writes:
How could any christian support war?
I never understood this one, either! I suppose that we are afraid of losing our material goods if we don't defend them....but....
NIV writes:
Luke 9:25-26-- What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit his very self?
CSPjr writes:
If you support the exact opposite of what God wanted for us, how do you call yourself a christian?
We all have a ways to go! Like Peter, where Jesus now is, we are not ready to go! I am encouraged, however, by this scripture:
NIV writes:
Phil 1:3-6--I thank my God every time I remember you. In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, being
confident of this, that
he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus. In other words, we did not start the good work within us and we will not finish it so as to earn our way to where Jesus is. I agree with jar in that our behavior is important, but I believe that our behavior is only possible due to the work of the Holy Spirit that God has began in each one of us. We become the decisions that we make on a daily basis. Our decisions are either influenced by our own vain imaginations or by Gods Spirit working in us.
NIV writes:
Ezek 13:1-3--The word of the LORD came to me: "Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel who are now prophesying. Say to those who prophesy out of
their own imagination: 'Hear the word of the LORD! This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Woe to the foolish prophets who
follow their own spirit and have seen nothing!
We have two basic choices:
1) We can follow our own wisdom and our own vain unction.
2) We can acknowledge that Jesus is alive, The character of God=The Holy Spirit who can come into our heart and guide us on a daily basis.....not in a controlling or manipulative fashion but as in the fashion of a gentle teacher who shows us the right path and encourages us to follow that path.
This message has been edited by Phat, 02-18-2006 12:52 AM
Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil. --Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago
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