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Author Topic:   Einstein's Religious Beliefs
PaulK
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Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 8 of 42 (468490)
05-29-2008 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by randman
05-29-2008 5:46 PM


Obviously the fact that Einstein denied believing in a "personal God" - i.e. a God that is in any sense a person - rather rules out the possibility that he was referring to an intelligent being.

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 Message 7 by randman, posted 05-29-2008 5:46 PM randman has replied

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 Message 10 by randman, posted 05-29-2008 6:35 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 15 of 42 (468502)
05-29-2008 7:07 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by randman
05-29-2008 6:35 PM


Re: nope
Your own quotes indicate otherwise. Einstein denies that his concept of God "...has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves." (Message 13)
See also the first quote in Message 9
It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropomorphic concept which I cannot take seriously.
Spinoza's God is also not a person as we would understand it
See here
As soon as this preliminary conclusion has been established, Spinoza immediately reveals the objective of his attack. His definition of God ” condemned since his excommunication from the Jewish community as a "God existing in only a philosophical sense" ” is meant to preclude any anthropomorphizing of the divine being
Because of the necessity inherent in Nature, there is no teleology in the universe. Nature does not act for any ends, and things do not exist for any set purposes. There are no "final causes" (to use the common Aristotelian phrase). God does not "do" things for the sake of anything else. The order of things just follows from God's essences with an inviolable determinism. All talk of God's purposes, intentions, goals, preferences or aims is just an anthropomorphizing fiction.

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 Message 10 by randman, posted 05-29-2008 6:35 PM randman has replied

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 Message 16 by randman, posted 05-29-2008 7:11 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 19 of 42 (468549)
05-30-2008 1:40 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by randman
05-29-2008 7:11 PM


Re: nope
quote:
A will like ourselves doesn't mean no will at all. I think the best quote is where Einstein says he is upset with atheists that try to count him as one of them.
Can you come up with a way of having a will that ISN'T like ourselves, in a way that fits with Einsteins other statements ?
And don't forget that Einstein is also upset with those that wish to count him as a theist. While you want to paint Einstein as essentially a deist who believes in an anthromorphic but noninterventionist God, that ignores his explicit agreement with Spinoza and rejection of any view of God as anthropomorphic.

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 21 of 42 (468556)
05-30-2008 8:34 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Percy
05-30-2008 8:13 AM


Re: nope
I think we have to say that Einstein's beliefs were in some way close to atheism and pantheism but not close enough that he felt happy about accepting either label. For instance his concept of God was something that HE considered to be a God, but others would not. That would be why he qualifies his statement about pantheism with "in common terms" - suggesting that there is some nuance that distinguishes his beliefs from pantheism in a stricter sense.

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 Message 20 by Percy, posted 05-30-2008 8:13 AM Percy has replied

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