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EvC Forum ⇒ Social and Religious Issues ⇒ Faith and Belief ⇒

Get Over Your Fear of Atheism

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Author Topic:   Get Over Your Fear of Atheism
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 81 of 169 (393557)
04-05-2007 6:37 PM 		Reply to: Message 79 by mpb1
04-05-2007 6:08 PM

mpb1 writes:
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You hold an amalgamation of beliefs that you seem to have cobbled together....
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Everybody puts together their own set of beliefs. People who actually think before they believe are more likely to have a solid belief system.
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Unfortunately, many professing Christians just swallow what they've been spoon-fed in church, without bothering to chew it. Very bad for the digestion - it leaves you with an ugly lump of dogma.
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If you really understood your own beliefs, you could discuss them intelligently instead of relying on childish insults.
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ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 116 of 169 (394454)
04-11-2007 3:17 PM 		Reply to: Message 115 by mpb1
04-11-2007 2:57 PM

Re: Why I didn't become an atheist
mpb1 writes:
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Either proposition must be accepted by faith, since we do not possess the infinite knowledge required to know if either is true.
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That's the fundamental error in your thinking: It doesn't take faith to not believe.
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Atheists, by definition, have no faith in God. No faith in (X) is not the same as faith in (not X).
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ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 161 of 169 (395218)
04-15-2007 4:50 PM 		Reply to: Message 160 by GDR
04-14-2007 4:02 PM

Re: The Internet is for ...
GDR writes:
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Hypothetical: I get drunk one night and run over my neighbour's cat. We would agree that the right thing to do is go to my neighbour and confess. However, we can also go further and ask for forgiveness.
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That's a poor analogy. According to conventional Christian dogma, a perfect stranger comes along and takes the blame for you. That's dishonest on his part - and dishonest on your part if you let him do it.
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 Message 162 by GDR, posted 04-15-2007 5:04 PM ringo has replied
  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 163 of 169 (395223)
04-15-2007 5:27 PM 		Reply to: Message 162 by GDR
04-15-2007 5:04 PM

Re: The Internet is for ...
GDR writes:
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I certainly didn't suggest that He is taking the blame. I will always be the one to blame.
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I was speaking of the conventional Christian dogma that "Jesus died for our sins", "paid the debt for us", etc. If I understand what sidelined was trying to say, allowing Him to do that would be dishonest on our part.
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Taking the blame means taking your own punishment, paying your own debts. If we are truly responsible, then the dogma is meaningless.
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By the way, are you about to tell us where Stubblejump is?
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Regina. The stubble's a little higher here than in Medicine Hat.
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This message is a reply to:
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 Message 164 by GDR, posted 04-15-2007 7:07 PM ringo has replied
  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 165 of 169 (395242)
04-15-2007 7:27 PM 		Reply to: Message 164 by GDR
04-15-2007 7:07 PM

Re: The Internet is for ...
GDR writes:
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Christ's death gives us a mechanism whereby we can make ourselves right with Him again by agreeing that we are responsible and by being truly remorseful.
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Whether making ourselves right with God or right with our neighbour, the Christ-crutch "mechanism" is still a way of squirming out of our responsibility. Better to stand before God and say, "It's not that I don't appreciate your Son's 'sacrifice', but I'll take what's coming to me anyway."
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(Which is why I don't believe in the whole hocus-pocus "mechanism".)
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Sorry about the Pats.
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They have their ups and downs. Saskatchewan is next-year country.
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by GDR, posted 04-15-2007 7:07 PM GDR has replied
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 Message 166 by GDR, posted 04-15-2007 9:22 PM ringo has replied
  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 167 of 169 (395293)
04-15-2007 10:34 PM 		Reply to: Message 166 by GDR
04-15-2007 9:22 PM

GDR writes:
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Assuming you're a parent and your 15 year old screws up. Wouldn't you rather that he/she came clean, told the truth, said they wouldn't do it again and asked for your forgiveness, as opposed to ignoring it and pretending it hadn't happened?
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That's not what I'm talking about at all. I'm talking about the idea of Jesus "paying a debt for us" or something to that effect. We should definitely come clean, tell the truth, repent, not do it again, brush our teeth after every meal, turn around three times and say ten Hail Marys. But we shouldn't accept any payment of any supposed debt by Jesus.
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by GDR, posted 04-15-2007 9:22 PM GDR has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by GDR, posted 04-16-2007 12:02 AM ringo has replied
  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 169 of 169 (395342)
04-16-2007 1:01 AM 		Reply to: Message 168 by GDR
04-16-2007 12:02 AM

GDR writes:
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Frankly I think that you are rejecting a view of Christianity that I don't believe in either....
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So we're only divided by a common language.
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