Free will vs Omniscience

Yes. I believe that the future is set much as the past is set. What has happened in the past has happened and nothing can change that fact.

There is a difference between God knowing the future and God decreeing every future event by fiat such that it will then take place. ---Just because God knows what I will ultimately decide does not take away my ability to decide...it only means that God knew my decision before I did.

​

We are going to make particular decisions in the future that are acts of our own personal will, and that is what secures the future such that God can know particular things or facts about the future. Therefore we can call God omniscient because He knows all things, but we can't necessarily say that He makes up our minds for us....only that we can't do anything that He did not foreknow.

Say that I died tomorrow. God foreknew that I would die and how I would die. This only means what it means---that God foreknew that on that day I would get shot since was in spot X. Does this mean that the guy who shot me could not have chosen a different path in the past? All that we can conclude is that the guy obviously didn't choose another path...not that he couldn't have. Just because something happens does not mean that it must happen...(unless you see it from Gods forward looking view)it simply means that it did happen.

So in the sense of God desiring that I live life to the best of my ability through His will, yes He wants the best for me.He cannot have a plan as long as I have any control, so in this sense His plan is that I willfully and joyfully accept His guidance. He desires that I have relationship with Him so that I freely choose what turns out to always be the better option.His foreknowing my eventual destiny does not mean that He controls me.

I am co writing the script through my actions. Just because He knows what I want to do before I do does not mean that He activates my mind and moves my lips.

The script, even if not yet written, is final. Ultimately everything will be as it is. From our perspective on the journey, we are making decisions which impact the final script (and they do) Perhaps what frustrates many is the idea that we can never really freely choose anything that altars what must be...so in that sense we don't have freedom to circumvent God.

Scottness, might I remind you that what we are writing are our opinions and our beliefs...not necessarily solutions which implies a bit of arrogance, don't you think?Perhaps a good rule of thumb is to say that nobody on this board has any solutions for anyone else. We are here to debate in good form and attempt to persuade others by voicing our beliefs and opinions.

---

Phat® says: We Become The Decisions That We Make.
* * * * * * * * * *
"I have a fundamental belief in the Bible as the Word of God, written by men who were inspired. I study the Bible daily."

​

"Atheism is so senseless. When I look at the solar system. I see the earth at the right distance from the sun to receive the proper amounts of heat and light. This did not happen by chance."- --Sir Isaac Newton

I said:

quote:

---

Perhaps what frustrates many is the idea that we can never really freely choose anything that altars what must be...so in that sense we don't have freedom to circumvent God.

---

Comments?

I will concede in essence that we have free will to do good(as defined by the Creator) or evil(as defined by the Creator).We don't have another option to simply ignore reality(as defined by the Creator) and simply do what thou wilt.Its this fact that frustrates many free thinkers. One cannot simply eternally ignore reality, even if that reality was created/defined by a Creator.So in this context I will admit that free will is an illusion.We only have free choice in the context of which choices were laid out for us.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Are you sure? Maybe no one at EvC has...I dunno...I've never taken a poll....I suppose we need to attempt to define what is and is not possible for humans to do/be/act/think.

I didn't realize that you had been here for 10 years, Cat. As you reread your old perspectives on this topic, do you have any new insights on this age old hypothetical topic?I currently believe and think that God may well foreknow everything that is destined to happen and yet we humans have no right to call that evil since we ourselves don't know our own destinies at this point. Our best course of action, in my mind, would be to act as if God was not a chaperone on a date and just do what we really want to do anyway.Believers could pray and unbelievers could simply carry on as they always do...because even if our destinies were foreknown and mapped out for us, we have little recourse apart from living one day at a time.

Lucifer was condemned because he chose rebellion. The fact that God knew about it does not strip Lucifer of the power to make the decision.

Did it ever occur to you that if we indeed did feel the way you describe, our efforts at opposing the monster would become our destiny?

You and I have argued and discussed the free will concept before, but I want to bring it up again in the hope that at least from my perspective i have matured and hopefully understand it better.If I recall correctly, your basic position on it is this: What other way could we describe a GOD who had foreknowledge?Does having foreknowledge in and of itself imply evil IF some of the created beings end up evil?Edited by Phat, : title

I still don't get it. I reread some of our old discussions, hoping to understand the basic argument. I confess im still in the dark on this one. For starters, why would GOD be responsible if somehow I chose a life of comfort and laziness and didn't give a hoot about my neighbors or my country? Many have said that GOD sees things as an eternal "now" and not in the future. Thus....if GOD created me and foreknew my idiocy, are you telling me I would have a case that this foreknowledge was evil?

I believe so.