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Author Topic:   Free will vs Omniscience
Dr Adequate
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Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 219 of 1406 (763629)
07-27-2015 4:04 AM
Reply to: Message 209 by Faith
07-25-2015 8:58 AM


Malachi 3:6: ...I am the LORD; I change not...

Exodus 32:14: So the LORD changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Faith, posted 07-25-2015 8:58 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by Faith, posted 07-27-2015 10:16 AM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 221 of 1406 (765256)
07-27-2015 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 220 by Faith
07-27-2015 10:16 AM


There are no contradictions in God's word.

But there's plenty of 'em in the Bible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by Faith, posted 07-27-2015 10:16 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by Faith, posted 07-27-2015 10:42 AM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 233 of 1406 (765349)
07-27-2015 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 222 by Faith
07-27-2015 10:42 AM


Nope. Unbelievers are hopelessly confused about it, that's all, because you refuse to obey the very first requirement of understanding it.

Apparently the first requirement is that I should ignore what it actually says.

What's the second? Does that involve burning it?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by Faith, posted 07-27-2015 10:42 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by Faith, posted 07-27-2015 8:17 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 238 of 1406 (765365)
07-28-2015 2:24 AM
Reply to: Message 235 by Faith
07-27-2015 8:17 PM


Re: time and eternity
First requirement is "Believe."

So I should think that it's true, and then and only then should I find out what it says. And then whatever it says, I should go on thinking that it's true.

Well by that procedure, you could believe any dumb crap no matter how counterfactual and self-contradictory. And indeed, it's a procedure that one would only want to apply if one wanted to have a good chance of believing something false. No-one sincerely wanting the truth would have anything to do with it.

One question that occurs to me is how you picked the text to which to apply this strange method of non-critical analysis. Why the Bible and not Alice In Wonderland? It can't have been through reading it and becoming convinced that it was true, because apparently one has to be convinced of that before one reads it --- otherwise one ends up like me, thinking that it's a load of old cobblers.

God does not change, He is the same yesterday today and forever, but IN RELATION TO HUMAN BEINGS He seems to change, such as changing His mind about punishing us if we repent of what He was going to punish us for and that sort of thing. Or by granting our prayers. That's the kind of thing that is put in our terms.

So, is it true or false to say that God changed his mind?

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by Faith, posted 07-27-2015 8:17 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 243 by Faith, posted 07-28-2015 12:52 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 296 of 1406 (765515)
07-30-2015 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 243 by Faith
07-28-2015 12:52 PM


Re: time and eternity
It's true from our perspective, in relation to our human time-bound experience, completely true: He does change in relation to our prayers, our changes of heart and so on.

But on the level of His being in eternity, no. The question about God's foreknowledge is on the level of His being in eternity, it doesn't affect us personally, which is why I keep answering as I do. There is no way His foreknowledge can change, so that He has it at one time but not another, in relation to one thing but not another, it's part of His very being. But again, it doesn't affect us at all in our everyday choices and actions.

So is it true or false to say that God changed his mind?

Did he first intend to destroy the Israelites, and then after he talked to Moses abandon that intention, as the Bible says; or is he changeless and did he never have any intention of destroying the Israelites?

Yes, I think I knew the Bible was God's word before I actually read it or read much of it ...

That's not knowledge, Faith.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by Faith, posted 07-28-2015 12:52 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 306 of 1406 (765533)
07-30-2015 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 305 by MrHambre
07-30-2015 2:48 PM


Re: Then Jump Through More Hoops
So you're not going to try? That's a shame, it might have been interesting.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 305 by MrHambre, posted 07-30-2015 2:48 PM MrHambre has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 307 by MrHambre, posted 07-30-2015 7:38 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 308 of 1406 (765538)
07-30-2015 11:11 PM
Reply to: Message 307 by MrHambre
07-30-2015 7:38 PM


Re: Sorry, Charlie
That's an unusual collection of words.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 307 by MrHambre, posted 07-30-2015 7:38 PM MrHambre has not yet responded

  
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