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EvC Forum ⇒ Social and Religious Issues ⇒ Faith and Belief ⇒

Free will vs Omniscience

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Author Topic:   Free will vs Omniscience
Kader
Member (Idle past 3980 days)
Posts: 156
Joined: 12-20-2006

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Message 1 of 1444 (372568)
12-28-2006 1:13 PM

I don't understand how can we have free will if God is Omnipotent and Omniscient.
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If someone shot you and you died a good christian.
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First, God knew you would die. You also died for a reason. (God has a plan). So how can the guy that shot you had any choice but to shoot you ?
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Basically did he had any free will ? If he did, how can you explain it ?
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Edited by Kader, : title change
Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-28-2006 3:29 PM Kader has replied
 Message 22 by anastasia, posted 12-29-2006 4:07 PM Kader has replied
 Message 32 by anastasia, posted 12-29-2006 8:22 PM Kader has not replied
 Message 47 by Rob, posted 12-30-2006 12:37 AM Kader has not replied
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Kader
Member (Idle past 3980 days)
Posts: 156
Joined: 12-20-2006

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Message 4 of 1444 (372611)
12-28-2006 4:05 PM 		Reply to: Message 3 by New Cat's Eye
12-28-2006 3:29 PM

Re: Omnipotence trumps all
Or maybe simply that the bible and the tora and the qu'ran are wrong ?
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Why dismiss that possibility ?
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 Message 3 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-28-2006 3:29 PM New Cat's Eye has replied
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Kader
Member (Idle past 3980 days)
Posts: 156
Joined: 12-20-2006

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Message 10 of 1444 (372628)
12-28-2006 5:32 PM 		Reply to: Message 9 by New Cat's Eye
12-28-2006 5:23 PM

Re: God capable of logical impossibilities?
Personally, if one guy decides to shoot another while god is omnipotent, I don't think that means that god must have pulled the trigger. Just becuase he was capable doesn't mean he had to, especially is he wants to let us do the pulling.
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So if God didn't pull the trigger (throught the guy) then she wasn't meant to die. Because if she WAS meant to die, then God DID kill her.
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And if she wasn't meant to die, they God failed her, and isn't omnipotent.
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Or we can just say we cannot nuderstand God. And chose to believe blindly. Liek the people who believed in the God of fire and season. Exactly like them.
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Kader
Member (Idle past 3980 days)
Posts: 156
Joined: 12-20-2006

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Message 17 of 1444 (372756)
12-29-2006 12:05 PM

If my example is illogical, how can the belief itself be "believable"
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Is it simply because God is beyond Logic ? But if he is, then how can we ever understand his teaching ?
  
Kader
Member (Idle past 3980 days)
Posts: 156
Joined: 12-20-2006

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Message 28 of 1444 (372820)
12-29-2006 5:08 PM 		Reply to: Message 22 by anastasia
12-29-2006 4:07 PM

quote:
According to Hume, free will should not be understood as an absolute ability to have chosen differently under exactly the same inner and outer circumstances. Rather, it is a hypothetical ability to have chosen differently if one had been differently psychologically disposed by some different beliefs or desires.
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What a nice way to make everything fit
comptabilism just change the definition a bit to make it so the new definition of free will is now compatible with Omniscience
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It is not hard to grasp, really. There have been examples in court cases where a lawyer has argued determinism as a way to exonerate a prisoner. If all things are naturally GOING to happen, are they predetermined by NATURE? Or do we dictate to an extent what DOES happen? We don't need to even bring God into the picture to see that this type of reasoning will probably not get the guilty pardoned.
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Yet in my example, how can the guy who shoots have free will ?
If its easy to grasp, it must be easy to explain ?
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Edited by Kader, : No reason given.
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 Message 29 by anastasia, posted 12-29-2006 5:46 PM Kader has replied
 Message 71 by ICANT, posted 07-16-2015 11:54 AM Kader has not replied
  
Kader
Member (Idle past 3980 days)
Posts: 156
Joined: 12-20-2006

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Message 31 of 1444 (372834)
12-29-2006 6:13 PM 		Reply to: Message 29 by anastasia
12-29-2006 5:46 PM

Here in the OP
Message 1
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Kader
Member (Idle past 3980 days)
Posts: 156
Joined: 12-20-2006

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Message 35 of 1444 (372852)
12-29-2006 9:12 PM 		Reply to: Message 34 by Phat
12-29-2006 9:06 PM

Re: God may know that actions that are chosen
Phat does God have a plan for you ?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Phat, posted 12-29-2006 9:06 PM Phat has replied
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Kader
Member (Idle past 3980 days)
Posts: 156
Joined: 12-20-2006

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Message 39 of 1444 (372868)
12-29-2006 9:59 PM 		Reply to: Message 36 by Phat
12-29-2006 9:27 PM

Re: God may know that actions that are chosen
Say that I died tomorrow. God foreknew that I would die and how I would die. This only means what it means---that God foreknew that on that day I would get shot since was in spot X. Does this mean that the guy who shot me could not have chosen a different path in the past? All that we can conclude is that the guy obviously didn't choose another path...not that he couldn't have. Just because something happens does not mean that it must happen...(unless you see it from Gods forward looking view)it simply means that it did happen.
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But that doesnt answer the question..
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Does god has a plan for you ?
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 Message 36 by Phat, posted 12-29-2006 9:27 PM Phat has replied
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