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Author Topic:   Free will vs Omniscience
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 71 of 1444 (762796)
07-16-2015 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Kader
12-29-2006 5:08 PM


Hi Kader,
Kader writes:
If its easy to grasp, it must be easy to explain ?
It is easy to grasp if you have at least a 5th grade education.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Kader, posted 12-29-2006 5:08 PM Kader has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by ringo, posted 07-16-2015 11:59 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.9


(1)
Message 73 of 1444 (762798)
07-16-2015 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Phat
12-29-2006 10:32 PM


Re: God may know that actions that are chosen
Hi Phat,
Phat writes:
He cannot have a plan as long as I have any control, so in this sense His plan is that I willfully and joyfully accept His guidance.
Why can't God have a plan for you?
I thought He died on the cross so everyone could have eternal life.
So God had a plan that everyone could be saved.
But God did not determine that everyone would follow His plan because he gave everyone the freewill to choose whether to accept the full free pardon He offered to mankind.
He also gave you the freewill to follow His plan for your life or not to follow His plan.
Could God force you to do His will? Yes, But He exercised His freewill and allowed you to choose the way you would live as well as what you would do about accepting His free full pardon He offered to you and everyone else.
Obama just offered a full pardon to 4 people who were in jail. They accepted that offer and were released from jail. Had they not accepted the offer of a pardon they would still be in jail as the Supreme Court has ruled 2 times that a pardon can not be forced upon anyone.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Phat, posted 12-29-2006 10:32 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 75 of 1444 (762803)
07-16-2015 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Asgara
12-29-2006 10:46 PM


Re: Puppets or Prodegies?
Hi Asgara,
Asgara writes:
Does he or does he not already have your life scripted out before he creates you? If he doesn't then he doesn't know what will happen.
Humans live in something we call time. Mankind took God's definition of a day found in Genesis 1:5 and divided the light portion and night portion we observe as the earth rotates in relation to the sun into 24 hours, composed of 60 minutes in each hour of which each minute is composed of 60 seconds of which each is composed of 1.000 ms of which each is composed of 1,000 microseconds of which each is composed of 1,000 ns.
God is not constrained by time as He lives in an eternal now. Which means He sees the beginning and the end and everything in between at the same time.
So God sees your birth and death at the same time as well as every decision you made during your lifetime. He just does not have anything to do with your choices.
Now if you have been born again and turned your life over to Him, He will try to influence each decision you make through the Holy Spirit which has sealed your eternal destiny when you were born again.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Asgara, posted 12-29-2006 10:46 PM Asgara has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Asgara, posted 07-16-2015 2:27 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 753 by Phat, posted 02-17-2019 10:54 AM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 76 of 1444 (762816)
07-16-2015 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by 1.61803
07-16-2015 10:07 AM


Re: Puppets or Prodegies?
Hi 1.61803,
1.61803 writes:
If by laid out you mean we have several choices then they are choices.
Actually you only have one choice concerning where you will spend eternity as one was made for you a long time ago by the man who was formed from the dust of the ground in Genesis 2:7 which disobeyed God and ate of the fruit he had been commanded not to eat.
quote:
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Other than to believe that God is (Jesus was God in human flesh) and will do what He said He will do is the only choice that matters as far as to where your eternal existence will be.
All other choices you make during your lifetime here on earth are not relevant to where you spend eternity.
Since God gave mankind freewill to make this choice for ourselves we also have the freewill to choose to do anything or believe anything we desire too.
God Bless,
Edited by ICANT, : correct quote

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by 1.61803, posted 07-16-2015 10:07 AM 1.61803 has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 77 of 1444 (762821)
07-16-2015 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Phat
07-16-2015 10:18 AM


Re: Puppets or Prodegies?
Hi Phat,
Phat writes:
Maybe no one at EvC has...I dunno...I've never taken a poll....
Think again.
You are anyone who has ever been born can make any decision except one, to do, say, or believe anything they desire too.
The one decision you can not make is a decision to spend eternity with the devil and his angels in the lake of fire. That decision has already been made for you by the man who was formed from the dust of the ground in Genesis 2:7. He broke God's command concerning eating of the fruit and disobeyed God. Due to that disobedience everyone who has ever been born or will be born was sold into slavery to the devil. So everyone belongs to the devil and will spend eternity with their father the devil unless they accept the free full pardon offered by God to mankind.
God does not make any decision for any of mankind.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Phat, posted 07-16-2015 10:18 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 78 of 1444 (762822)
07-16-2015 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by ringo
07-16-2015 11:59 AM


Hi Ringo,
Ringo writes:
As a teacher of mine used to say, if you can't explain it to an eight-year-old you don't understand it.
The eight year old not being able to understand it is the reason I used a 5th grader.
An eleven year old can understand it.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by ringo, posted 07-16-2015 11:59 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by ringo, posted 07-17-2015 11:40 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 80 of 1444 (762826)
07-16-2015 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by jar
07-16-2015 12:14 PM


Re: God as Chaparone
Hi jar,
jar writes:
Only if we actually thought there was even an outside chance such a ridiculous thing really existed otherwise our proper behavior is to just laugh at the concept and pity those who actually think such a creature worthy of belief or worship.
jar I have believed in God since I was 7 years old and in 1949 at age 9 I turned my life and eternal destiny over to His keeping. I have lived to be 75 years old believing in and trusting God to take care of me here on earth and throughout all eternity. I have never missed a meal, I have never been unemployed in my lifetime until I retired and am doing more now than before I retired. I have a wonderful partner in life that God provided for me whom I met 60 years ago and have been married to for the past 58 years. God has allowed me to help many people during my lifetime teaching many a trade they could make a living at, as well as many other thing He has allowed me to do. In other words my life could not have been any better as I have enjoyed my life along with the nature God has allowed me to enjoy.
Now if I was to die today can you tell me one thing I have missed in my life that I would have had if I had not believed God and trusted Him for everything.
In other words jar if I died today and I simply went to a grave in which I would know nothing from the time I drew my last breath what have I missed out on in my life here on earth?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by jar, posted 07-16-2015 12:14 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by jar, posted 07-16-2015 1:48 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.9


(1)
Message 97 of 1444 (762864)
07-16-2015 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Phat
07-16-2015 1:59 PM


Re: Foreknowledge and Free Will
Hi Phat,
Phat writes:
I believe so.
Just because you believe it does not make it so.
God created mankind male and female your parents were descendants of those people.
Your parents created you not God.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Phat, posted 07-16-2015 1:59 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 98 of 1444 (762865)
07-16-2015 9:15 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by jar
07-16-2015 2:49 PM


Re: Foreknowledge and Free Will
Hi jar
jar writes:
except we do not live forever.
Are you sure?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by jar, posted 07-16-2015 2:49 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by jar, posted 07-16-2015 9:19 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.9


(1)
Message 100 of 1444 (762876)
07-17-2015 2:00 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by jar
07-16-2015 9:19 PM


Re: Foreknowledge and Free Will
Hi jar,
jar writes:
Yes, anything born dies. Sorry but that is a fact.
Enoch and Elijah haven't died yet.
Mankind was created an eternal being and will live somewhere eternally.
Those who are born again of the Spirit will live with God their father eternally all others will live with their father the devil.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by jar, posted 07-16-2015 9:19 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by jar, posted 07-17-2015 8:24 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 104 of 1444 (762929)
07-17-2015 11:17 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by jar
07-17-2015 8:24 AM


Re: Foreknowledge and Free Will
Hi jar,
You are free to exercise your freewill and call God's
jar writes:
Sorry but that is simply utter nonsense and if it were true then it would be proof that the God you market is vile, evil and unworthy of respect or worship.
But just because you want to believe something does not make it so. You can act like Cain did all you want. Cain did not do things God's way and God did not accept Cain's way. God does not have to accept the gospel according to jar either.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by jar, posted 07-17-2015 8:24 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by jar, posted 07-18-2015 8:41 AM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 105 of 1444 (762930)
07-17-2015 11:20 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by ringo
07-17-2015 11:40 AM


Hi Ringo,
Ringo writes:
It's not about the understander; it's about the explainer.
I would think that for a eleven year old to understand it there would have to be someone that could explain it where the eleven year old could understand it.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by ringo, posted 07-17-2015 11:40 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by ringo, posted 07-18-2015 11:49 AM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 282 of 1444 (765491)
07-30-2015 2:40 AM
Reply to: Message 257 by Faith
07-28-2015 11:50 PM


Re: ** FOREknowledge**
Hi Faith,
It sure looks like everyone has hijacked this thread and totally forgot about it being about foreknowledge.
Faith writes:
Now you are acting as if you believe YOU have foreknowledge, and know you are going to Hell?
Everyone can have foreknowledge of where they will spend eternity.
John writes:
3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Everyone that has ever been born is condemned to the lake of fire because of the sin of one man.
Romans writes:
5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Because one man chose to disobey God and eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil sin entered the universe and every human being was sold into slavery by that first man. Thus every one is under the penalty of sin and will spend eternity in the lake of fire.
Unless they exercise their free will and chose to accept the free full pardon that has been offered to mankind by God for their sins.
Now as to the foreknowledge of God. I will use myself as an example.
I was born into this world in 1939 and as soon as I knew good and evil as the man in the garden did I became responsible for my sin debt.
2 months before my 10th birthday I accepted God's pardon for my debt that I could not pay. Because of that acceptance I have eternal life.
Before Genesis 1:1 God viewed the end:
Acts writes:
15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
This tells me before God created the universe He viewed the end and everything in between. He saw every time I disobeyed Him as well as every time I obeyed Him. And yet He was willing to come down to the earth and suffer that I might be reunited with Him to spend eternity with Him just because He loved me.
He knew this about every person who has ever been born and was still willing to die in our place.
Now the problem every one here has is they are locked in a box called time which is nothing but and invention of mankind to measure distance between events.
God is not locked in time as time does not exist. There is only eternity. God still sees the beginning and the end and every thing in between at the same moment just as He did prior to Genesis 1:1.
If I die before my wife does I will get to heaven 1 nano second before she does regardless of how many years she spends on earth after my death. Time does not exist in eternity, it is one great big now.
So God knowing every decision I made during my existence on earth had nothing to do with what decision I made. He just saw the movie and knew what was going to happen next. Because for the measure of the distance between the beginning and the end as far as God is concerned we can not come up with a number small enough to measure that distance.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by Faith, posted 07-28-2015 11:50 PM Faith has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 284 of 1444 (765493)
07-30-2015 3:06 AM
Reply to: Message 279 by PaulK
07-29-2015 6:11 PM


Re: TRe: time and eternity
Hi Paulk,
Paulk writes:
I see no mention of Israel, Aram or the Assyrians, all central to the prophecy of Isaiah 7
What specific prophecy of Isaiah 7 are you referring too?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by PaulK, posted 07-29-2015 6:11 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by PaulK, posted 07-30-2015 3:17 AM ICANT has not replied

  
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