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Author
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Topic: Free will vs Omniscience
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Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1334 days) Posts: 332 Joined: 07-25-2020
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Re: Introducing An Old Argument Revisited
But suppose the super-smart being makes the prediction before the events happen? Suppose, a billion years ago, before any recording was made of any actions of any humans, the super-smart being could look at the trajectory of every atom in the universe and predict what was going to happen?
If the super-smart being could do this before the evolution of humans, then how could it be said the humans had free will and were not just following a mechanical trajectory like the planets in their orbits? In between state A and state B, there could be infinite amount of routes. That where the freedom is.
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Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1334 days) Posts: 332 Joined: 07-25-2020
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Re: Introducing An Old Argument Revisited
Not according to our (alleged) super-smart being. There is only one route. The motions of the atoms in our bodies should be just as predictable to the super-smart being as the motion of the Moon in its orbit is predictable to us. Even in the most predictable system of sciences, very few things are really predictable. The orbiting track of moon seems to be predictable. But it is so only in a short period of time. Nobody knows what the moon's orbit would look like 10 million years from now. Atom movement in your body is predictable? You wish.
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Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1334 days) Posts: 332 Joined: 07-25-2020
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Message 1083 of 1444 (881030)
08-16-2020 4:01 PM
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Reply to: Message 1080 by jar
08-16-2020 3:41 PM
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Re: Sheep & Goat Behavior and Gods Foreknowledge
So, you do have free will and freedom. Right?
Some of your skeptical atheistic comrades don't think so.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1080 by jar, posted 08-16-2020 3:41 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1084 by jar, posted 08-16-2020 4:10 PM | | Juvenissun has replied |
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Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1334 days) Posts: 332 Joined: 07-25-2020
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Message 1103 of 1444 (881082)
08-17-2020 8:06 PM
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Reply to: Message 1084 by jar
08-16-2020 4:10 PM
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Re: Sheep & Goat Behavior and Gods Foreknowledge
There is something you don't see.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1084 by jar, posted 08-16-2020 4:10 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1105 by jar, posted 08-17-2020 8:20 PM | | Juvenissun has replied |
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Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1334 days) Posts: 332 Joined: 07-25-2020
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[qs]
Think of a young Clark Kent. How does he know (because he has x-ray vision) that things have "surfaces"? Think of an "all-powerful" being. How does it understand a "day of rest" when for it there is no difference between strenuous work and no work at all? You do not know the answers to these questions? Amazing.
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Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1334 days) Posts: 332 Joined: 07-25-2020
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Message 1106 of 1444 (881091)
08-18-2020 7:38 AM
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Reply to: Message 1105 by jar
08-17-2020 8:20 PM
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Re: Sheep & Goat Behavior and Gods Foreknowledge
There is some important thing there which you do not see.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1105 by jar, posted 08-17-2020 8:20 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1109 by jar, posted 08-18-2020 9:03 AM | | Juvenissun has replied |
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Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1334 days) Posts: 332 Joined: 07-25-2020
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Message 1113 of 1444 (881105)
08-18-2020 11:32 AM
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Reply to: Message 1109 by jar
08-18-2020 9:03 AM
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Re: Sheep & Goat Behavior and Gods Foreknowledge
No. I do see something you don't. You are simply afraid to ask.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1109 by jar, posted 08-18-2020 9:03 AM | | jar has not replied |
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Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1334 days) Posts: 332 Joined: 07-25-2020
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Re: [qs]
Well, since I consider the concepts of comic book superheroes and religious deities to be equally improbable the questions are, shall we say, rhetorical. It doesn't matter what is your view point, the logic of the question should be the same. So, the key in the answer is the logic, not the content. If you repeat your question, I will show you what do I mean.
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Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1334 days) Posts: 332 Joined: 07-25-2020
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Message 1116 of 1444 (881108)
08-18-2020 11:39 AM
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Reply to: Message 1110 by jar
08-18-2020 9:13 AM
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Re: Understanding The Argument From Different Perspectives
Did we make the decision to create ourselves? Yes. https://www.evcforum.net/Images/Moods/mood6.gif (how do I put the smily face on the post?) Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1110 by jar, posted 08-18-2020 9:13 AM | | jar has not replied |
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Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1334 days) Posts: 332 Joined: 07-25-2020
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Message 1122 of 1444 (881142)
08-18-2020 3:52 PM
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Reply to: Message 1117 by jar
08-18-2020 12:42 PM
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Re: Understanding The Argument From Different Perspectives
Who decided to create us? We.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1117 by jar, posted 08-18-2020 12:42 PM | | jar has not replied |
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Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1334 days) Posts: 332 Joined: 07-25-2020
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Message 1125 of 1444 (881181)
08-19-2020 7:19 AM
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Reply to: Message 1124 by jar
08-18-2020 4:43 PM
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Re: Is This How You Treated Each Other On The Porch Discussions?
The evil is a god that creates someone or something that the god already knows is damned. Who says it is evil? You? Do you know what evil is? Are you evil? Why not? Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given. Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1124 by jar, posted 08-18-2020 4:43 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1126 by jar, posted 08-19-2020 7:34 AM | | Juvenissun has replied |
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Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1334 days) Posts: 332 Joined: 07-25-2020
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Message 1130 of 1444 (881194)
08-19-2020 1:05 PM
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Reply to: Message 1126 by jar
08-19-2020 7:34 AM
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Re: Is This How You Treated Each Other On The Porch Discussions?
Yes I know what evil is. And I am not evil. And evil is a human construct and defined by social standards the vary from group to group and era to era. So according to what group God is evil and to what group God is not evil? Who can say god is absolutely evil on anything? You? And, according to YOUR definition, I really think your definition of evil is probably wrong. Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1126 by jar, posted 08-19-2020 7:34 AM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1133 by jar, posted 08-19-2020 2:17 PM | | Juvenissun has replied | | | Message 1135 by Phat, posted 08-19-2020 2:54 PM | | Juvenissun has replied |
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Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1334 days) Posts: 332 Joined: 07-25-2020
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Message 1131 of 1444 (881197)
08-19-2020 1:12 PM
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Reply to: Message 1129 by ringo
08-19-2020 12:33 PM
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Re: Is This How You Treated Each Other On The Porch Discussions?
If He is omniscient, we know; He knows EVERYTHING - everything we know, everything every human being knows or knew or will ever know, everything that has happened or will happen, every decision that we will ever make. Everything. That is very good. Do you want to serve a God who knows less than that?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1129 by ringo, posted 08-19-2020 12:33 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1132 by ringo, posted 08-19-2020 1:18 PM | | Juvenissun has replied |
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Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1334 days) Posts: 332 Joined: 07-25-2020
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Message 1138 of 1444 (881213)
08-19-2020 9:38 PM
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Reply to: Message 1133 by jar
08-19-2020 2:17 PM
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Re: Is This How You Treated Each Other On The Porch Discussions?
Yes, according to the definition of evil that is common throughout modern civilization creating a living being knowing that being will be damned throughout eternity is evil. What do you mean by "damned"? Is this world damned NOW? If not, why are there any people lived in miserable conditions, even you have to work hard to earn a living? Is this world damned now? If it is, then your "damned" conditions turned to be "normal" conditions. If so, where is the evil?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1133 by jar, posted 08-19-2020 2:17 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1144 by jar, posted 08-20-2020 7:42 AM | | Juvenissun has replied |
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Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1334 days) Posts: 332 Joined: 07-25-2020
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Message 1139 of 1444 (881214)
08-19-2020 9:45 PM
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Reply to: Message 1135 by Phat
08-19-2020 2:54 PM
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Re: GOD, God, and god
jars problem (in my opinion) is that he believes that evil is a human construct and while acknowledging that GOD exists, the God that we market is also entirely a human construct and that the actual Deity is forever unknowable while we are alive. Furthermore, jar believes that GOD, Creator of all seen and unseen is complete and not just "Good". You will have to ask him to elaborate on that. Many problems of unbelievers start right from the beginning: they do not have an idea on what is God? If God is evil, then that god is not god anymore. In order to say anything about God, God must not be evil to begin with. In this case, the legitimate question to ask is: IF God is not evil, then why does God allow eternal suffering? Unbelievers has hard time to "ask" (not to answer) the question in a logically correct format. Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1135 by Phat, posted 08-19-2020 2:54 PM | | Phat has not replied |
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