Free will vs Omniscience

jar writes:The evil is a god that creates someone or something that the god already knows is damned.

ringo writes:If He is omniscient, we know; He knows EVERYTHING - everything we know, everything every human being knows or knew or will ever know, everything that has happened or will happen, every decision that we will ever make. Everything.

So according to what group God is evil and to what group God is not evil? Who can say god is absolutely evil on anything? You?And, according to YOUR definition, I really think your definition of evil is probably wrong.

...according to the definition of evil that is common throughout modern civilization creating a living being knowing that being will be damned throughout eternity is evil.

ringo writes:He's trying to remove omniscience from God to remove God's responsibility.

jar writes:..The fact that they market an omniscient creator of all that is seen and unseen who also judges creation and rewards or punishes that creation.

jar writes:How does the way you feel differ from the way the Muslim feels about Allah or the Hindi feels about Ganesh or the Buddhist feels about Buddha or the Satanist feels about Satan or ...

jar writes:Each of the others mentioned make the very same claims about the god they market as you make about your creation.What makes your feelings valid?

ringo writes:You have been trying to argue for months that God is not responsible for "our decisions" and you have been shown many times that if He is omniscient and irresponsible, He must be evil.

Phat writes:If God is omniscient there is little I can do about it...

ringo writes:It has nothing to do with what YOU can do about it. It's about what GOD can do about it.

jar writes:The issue is they market and you have always bought, a god that creates a living being KNOWING that individual living being with be damned for all eternity.

The issue is that they pervert and demean and diminish the message of Jesus and misrepresent the Bible and the Creeds and the teachings of Jesus.

The issue is that they market anything that will be easy to sell.

The issue is that they market that their flock should not think, not question, not believe that what is written in the Bible stories and in the Creeds is what is actually written in the Bible stories and the creeds.

The issue is that they are simply conmen, carny hucksters, comedians, shysters and pettifoggers.

The issue is that they are without worth, without honor and without merit.

The issue is that they are very, very, very successful in promoting a flock of willing dupes.

ringo writes:Myself, I don't see what serving somebody has to do with what they know or how much they know. We tend to serve our children and other loved ones based on criteria other than their knowledge.

The issue is they market and you have always bought, a god that creates a living being KNOWING that individual living being with be damned for all eternity.

jars belief statement writes:Message 1
Dark comes early in northern Maryland, and so it was inevitable that most of the time we entertained ourselves. What can be more entertaining to young men than big issues. Somehow, GOD and religion and mankind’s place in all of this seemed to be a regular topic of discussion. The evenings were long and the conversations often heated. When the weather allowed we’d sit out on the porch, arguing while we waited for our turn up on the ping-pong table, when bad we’d sit around in the front room, or visit one of the Master’s houses where we could huddle in front of the open fire letting ideas rise like sparks from the logs.It was there, in those long conversations where some of the questions raised by Father Joe and my parents began to get resolved. It was a period of opening horizons, my every belief being challenged by minds as quick and intensive as my own, by experience far greater than my own and by whole new moral systems, the Works of Mencius, the Gnostic Gospels, the philosophies of Greece and Germany, the writings of Thoreau and Frost and Twain and Lewis and Tolkein and Hemingway and Camus and Seller and Yeatman.It was when some of the things became clear.A GOD that chooses who will be saved doesn’t make sense. A GOD that creates all and then goes through and picks and chooses who will be saved is just plain cruel and arbitrary and not something to be worshiped.A GOD that wants to be worshiped is just too silly a thought. Maybe some picayune God might worry about what folk thought of Her, like the little girl who worries that her corsage might not be right, too big, or too small, or the guy that worries about his tie not being in style or that people think he looks funny, but GOD cannot be so insecure.The idea of Once saved always saved just made no sense. That’s one of those simplistic ideas that gives folk an out. Anyone who does something really wrong obviously wasn’t saved in the first place, or so their argument went. That just felt way to much like a copout and just another example of mental gymnastics, a way of cheating and making excuses.I think maybe the Honor System was beginning to change from just a set of rules to a way of life.It was in the second year at St. Paul’s that I went back and really started rereading the Bible and listening to what was in there.