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Author | Topic: Free will vs Omniscience | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Nothing silly about it. You have been trying to argue for months that God is not responsible for "our decisions" and you have been shown many times that if He is omniscient and irresponsible, He must be evil.
ringo writes:
How silly! He's trying to remove omniscience from God to remove God's responsibility. Phat writes:
It has nothing to do with what YOU can do about it. It's about what GOD can do about it. If God is omniscient there is little I can do about it..."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I notice that "the argument is wrong" doesn't figure in your list of excuses for not understanding it.
There have been attempts to show me, but either I am stupid, as some suggest, willfully ignorant, or more likely the arguments have been incorrectly presented. Phat writes:
Don't be silly. If God was evil, He couldn't be counted on to tell the truth, could He? He might tell us, like He told Adam and Eve, that we will die today (where "today" really, really, really means forty years from now).
If so, the argument will remain unsettled until we both can verify communication from or with God. Phat writes:
Good plan. If you did, you might get no answer at all or you might get an answer you don't want to hear. It's safer to keep your "communication" with God on a nice vague plane. ... I've never directly addressed our arguments to Him."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
How would you go about serving God? How does He take His coffee? Does He prefer mustard or mayonnaise on His sandwich? You seem to have thrown away the first part and are concentrating only on the second. As Jesus said elsewhere, you don't love God or serve God by mouthing, "Lord! Lord!""I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Juvenissun writes:
Phat's prognostications are as innaccurate as most prophets but his arrogance suggests that he is more of an "attempted prophet".
In that case, Jar is a normal person, and Phat is a prophet. Juvenissun writes:
Are you trying to be sarcastic or did you get that right by accident? A wise person today should be "I'll doubt it when I see it"."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Juvenissun writes:
Then explain HOW it is false and tell us what "the truth" is. Your interpretation to what Jesus says is FALSE."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
And you never explain how that's bad thing. Jesus did it. He required his disciples to do it. He told the rich young ruler to do it. The Roman Church did it. What makes you exempt? He never seems phased when I complain that his philosophy would empty my closet of anything I held back for myself."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
You're fond of talking about "human nature". ...you claim to be a Christian yet are an advocate for dismantling the club. Do you think it started yesterday? I don't. I think it started with the first humans, and though it has evolved over the millennia, it still boils down to survival of the individual versus survival of the species. We want both but we can't always have both. Jesus came to teach the Pharisees, et al. to think more of society and less of themselves. Do you think "human nature" has changed just because you call yourselves "Christians"? I don't think so. I think all of us, including you, need to learn the same lessons that Jesus tried to teach the Pharisees. Isn't it ironic that you claim to be "in communion" with Jesus and yet you deny His teachings."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Juvenissun writes:
I don't know if jar is speaking to you, so I'll give you one: Talking snake. It's just silly to think it was an actual talking snake. jar writes:
I challenge you to give just ONE such "stuff". The Bible (and there is no such thing as The Bible) says lots of silly, contradictory and fantasy stuff."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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AnswersInGenitals writes:
I bet you could sell fotok to the health food crowd. If God didn’t want Adam or Eve to eat the Fruit Of the Tree Of Knowledge (FOTOK)...."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Juvenissun writes:
Jesus said that "not everyone" who cries Lord! Lord! is a true follower - i.e. professing belief is not a valid indicator.
Those who cry Lord, Lord, may or may not be believers.That is a True statement. Juvenissun writes:
Check the beam in your own eye. Please follow basic logic when you do that."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Juvennisun writes:
The Bible says a lot of things that are patently false. The talking snake is one of the most obvious examples. It's obvious because snakes don't have the physical apparatus required for speech, much like how giraffes do not have the physical apparatus required for juggling.
There ARE angelic beings described in the Bible. Juvennisun writes:
The Bible QUOTES the WORDS that the snake spoke. That is not "some kind of communication". It's SPEECH. do you believe some human can communicate with snakes (and many other animals) today? That is a way of "talk". The snake is obviously a literary device, a way to present Eve's thought process."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Juvenissun writes:
Because the Bible says it was a snake.
So you do not accept that the snake is an angel? Why not? Juvenissun writes:
I can use the Bible to argue against YOUR theology.
Are you going to use science to argue against theology? Juvenissun writes:
God is in the imagination of humans, along with leprechauns and the Tooth Fairy.
Where is God in science? Juvenissun writes:
Then why do you use it to try to prove the flood happened?
the Bible is a faith book, not a science book. Juvenissun writes:
It's your theology that is not correct, because you're misusing the Bible.
EVERYTHING said in the Bible is theologically sound and correct. Juvenissun writes:
What question did I ask? Your talking snake question has been fully answered."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Bear in mind that I'm not using the Krazy Klown definition of socialism that you use.
Having a searching and inquisitive mind, and having grown up in the sixties when the young of that era fought against the establishment and conservative empire building schemes of Nixon and the Republicans, ringo has been an advocate of socialism as the best system of people helping others. Phat writes:
You have it backwards (as usual). I learned that the message was important from my parents and then again in church. I rejected the idea that the messenger is important because of people like you turning a beautiful and practical message into an ugly personality cult.
As he rejected organized religion and embraced the reality of humans helping humans, he concluded that it was the message that was important and not the messenger. Phat writes:
The title is Treasure Island.
... he claims that the Bible is no more important of a book that The Legend Of Long John Silver.... Phat writes:
The sad part is that you still have to be taught.
ringo teaches us to accept the message of Jesus... Phat writes:
Not "less important". UNimportant. Completely unimportant, as proven by the people of other religions who don't accept your messenger at all but who understand the message much better than you do.
... but that accepting Jesus is less important. Phat writes:
You mean you don't? What kind of American are you, rejecting the Declaration of Independence? Remember, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal...."?
He would advocate accepting all humans as equal. Phat writes:
And you have never been able to show that that is an error. He has errored by incorrectly placing Jesus in the category of myth."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Juvemissun writes:
I couldn't care less if you reply or not. I'll keep pointing out your errors whether you can handle it or not. I only reply to adult argument, not a kids fight."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Juvenissun writes:
Just so you know, I was practically born in church. I could quote scripture before I could read it. I spent thirty years going to church as much as five times a week. I have seen "speaking in tongues" dozens, maybe hundreds of times.
I guess you've never visited a church meeting. Juvenissun writes:
It really isn't. The answer is there."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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