Free will vs Omniscience

I have asked you before, how can you be "saved" from something that hasn't happened yet? And what sense does it make to be "saved" BY the entity that you're being saved FROM? There's no logic to it. Not all posers. A lot of them are delusional. That's not an argument, yada yada yada.

As Jesus pointed out to the disciples, the lady who gave two mites gave more than the rich men who gave bags of gold - because she gave all she had. See above. Jesus told the rich young ruler to "sell what you have and give to the poor" - not "sell a lot and give to the poor". It isn't how much you do that counts. It's how much you could do and don't.

Apparently it takes years and years of repetition to get through to you, so here goes, again: You can learn something from Frodo even if you don't believe The Lord of the Rings is true.

But you're always saying that God doesn't want us to grow up.Either we're responsible and God is irrelevant or God is responsible.

it's not an assumption. It's a conclusion. The same way that the Pope is irrelevant to your decision on whom you vote for. If you're responsible, somebody else isn't. That's pretty simple.

The point is that if God is not responsible for YOUR choices, then He IS irrelevant TO your choices.It doesn't matter whether He's human or not. It doesn't matter whether He exists or not. He can not be relevant to your choices unless He influences your choices.

Well, if God is omniscient and He "advises" you on what to do, why would you not take His advice? And if He's feeding you the "right answers" how is He not responsible for you acting on them? The message supersedes any voices in your head. If any messenger denies the message or alters the message, shoot the messenger.

I have argued that Jesus happened to understand the message - as many preachers, priests and prophets have done throughout history. Ask the early Christians. Ask the disciples. That's what Jesus recommended. That's pretty clear. It's hard to understand why you pay any attention to scripture at all. According to what Jesus said in the Bible, YOU won't be saved - so it's no surprise that you don't like what the Bible says. I didn't say He was 100% responsible. I said He was more than 0% responsible. And if He is more than 0% responsible for bad things that happen, He can not be 100% good, as you fantasize.Edited by ringo, : Soelling.

No, other social species understand the message too. They're passed down in the DNA. Don't be fooled by the word "message". The message is just a formalization of what we all know to be true. As I said, ask the disciples and the early church. They did it, didn't they? Or is hat another part of the Bible that you throw away? I keep telling you, nobody is "ordering" you to do it. It's voluntary. Most professing Christians, including you, wouldn't do it. Each other. Sure I do. Why would the message change? You can spit on the Bible all you like but the fact is it's the only reference to Jesus that you have. Your "experiences" are worthless. Nonsense. I don't have to explain anything. My motivation is truth. That isn't my favorite axiom - but it is an axiom. As I said, every social species understands it. It's only human greed that tries to deny it. Jesus doesn't tell you anything. The voices in your head are manufactured by your own brain. The voices in your head are lying to you. The brain has a habit of doing that. I can guarantee that you will not back up that charge because you never do.

Bees. But it DID happen, didn't it? Or is that another part of the Bilble that you throw away? Learn what Marxism is.And it DOES happen today among the Hutterites, for example, as well as many monastic communities in several religions. There are houses now, aren't there? People will live in the houses.Read the Book of Acts. Again, the message is for people who supposedly believe in Jesus. He didn't say they would always be the same poor. You're the one who denies what Jesus said. The Jesus in the Bible most certainly WAS a liberal. The Jesus that you made up in your head is is a right-wing nut like you.

He also promised to make fourfold restitution to the people he had cheated. That accounts for the other half.As I have tried to show you many times, it isn't how much you give that counts; it's how much you hold back. He also kills tbe ones who hold back - e.g. Ananias and Sapphira. It ain't rocket science. A guy loses his job and he's poor for a while. Then he gets another job and something similar happens to somebody else.What Jesus said is NOT an excuse to not help the poor. It's not a copout at all. Why would I follow the instructions of a fictional character? I help the poor because it's the right thing to do, not because somebody told me to.And why would you, who thinks the character is real, NOT follow His instructions?

But they don't. They can't. They have no way of knowing what I give. It has nothing to do with "power". Why don't you listen to what I tell you about "my form of liberalism" instead of your right-wing propaganda? And I'll remind you that He kills the ones who hold back.

And that has never worked. There are always poor people, as somebody once said. How is that different from forcing the same middle/working class to help the military-industrial complex?Every government collects taxes. I'm just advocating spending them on something useful. The phrase "manditorily shoehorned" is your phrase. It's your bad attitude. I'm saying you should be glad to pay taxes for useful purposes. For God's sake, stop using that stupid argument. I don't have to believe Frodo existed to know what the book says. Why? Nothing else that your tax money is spent on is your decision.As for your propaganda chart:

I do NOT advocate assets ownded by "government/cooperatives".

EVERYBODY advocates redistribution of income.

I do NOT advocate price controls.

I do NOT advocate "government-owned firms", PERIOD.

I do NOT advocate "high progressive taxes". I DO advocate higher spending on public services.

Healthcare provided by the government free at point of use is practically a worldwide standard. You would have to be insane to advocate healthcare for profit.

I do NOT advocate "state industry".

I DEFINITELY DO promote equality. And why should we not "attempt to overcome market failure"? We attempt to overcome every other problem, don't we?

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Why don't you pay attention to what I actually say instead of just parroting what your right-wing handlers tell you I think?

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"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

Neither do I. You already make more than I do. I'm advocating that the ones who make less than I do should make as much as I do because it's enough to survive on. You know damn well that the masses clamoring for your job will earn the money just as much as you do. It was Jesus who told you to help the poor. Y'know, I wrote a fairly long post and this has nothing to do with anything I wrote. Why can't you discuss something honestly instead of just using me to bounce your rants off?

It's Jesus who expects you to care about the poor impoverished masses. Go ye into all the world. What the conservative agenda fears is losing its own pile. It doesn't give a flying fuck about you. You're a dupe. As long as they can fool you into doing their bidding, they don't have to worry about YOU questioning their wealth. Why? Instead of just parroting right-wing propaganda, why don't you THINK about it? That engine is the people. What the hell is an AOC? See above. The people. Pay them more and they can pay more. And that's a bad thing? Why?

quote:

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Luke 18:24-25 And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

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Since you are fond of the idea of people "choosing Hell", there's something close to confirmation for you: People who choose riches are choosing Hell. Becoming wealthy and becoming comfortable are vastly different things. I advocate that EVERYBODY should become comfortable. The problem is that you can't be as wealthy as Trump without being as vicious as Trump.