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Author Topic:   Free will vs Omniscience
ringo
Member (Idle past 489 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 244 of 1444 (765388)
07-28-2015 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 243 by Faith
07-28-2015 12:52 PM


Re: time and eternity
Faith writes:
Jesus said "repent and believe." Obey and see marvelous things unfold before your eyes.
He said (Mark 1:15), "... believe the gospel" - i.e. what He was saying. He didn't mean you'd see anything "unbelievable".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by Faith, posted 07-28-2015 12:52 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 245 by Faith, posted 07-28-2015 1:10 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 489 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 246 of 1444 (765392)
07-28-2015 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 245 by Faith
07-28-2015 1:10 PM


Re: time and eternity
Faith writes:
Ah yes, but while the gospel can be stated in simple terms as the message of salvation by grace through faith in Christ it is usually presented by the theologians I most appreciate as encompassing the entire revelation of the Bible. In fact you can't really understand the simple terms without understanding the larger context.
As usual, it boils down to what you think Jesus said as opposed to what He actually said. Believe whatever nonsense you can dream up and it retro-actively becomes what the Bible "really means".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by Faith, posted 07-28-2015 1:10 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 247 by Faith, posted 07-28-2015 1:30 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 489 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 268 of 1444 (765454)
07-29-2015 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 247 by Faith
07-28-2015 1:30 PM


Re: time and eternity
Faith writes:
I didn't dream it up, it's the consensus of the theologians I trust.
You may have borrowed the dream but it's still your dream.
Faith writes:
Your posts on the Bible are usually so outlandishly peculiar to you personally you shouldn't ever talk about others "making things up."
The difference between you and me being that I quote the Bible to back up what I say.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by Faith, posted 07-28-2015 1:30 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 489 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 269 of 1444 (765455)
07-29-2015 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 254 by Phat
07-28-2015 11:36 PM


Re: ** FOREknowledge**
Phat writes:
IF Hell exists, would you ever want to go there?
I live in Saskatchewan so bad weather doesn't scare me. As for the company, I've said before that there are people supposedly in Hell that I would rather spend my time with than a lot of Christians.
Phat writes:
If the answer is "no" what makes you think that GOD is somehow going to allow you to be tricked and even end up there to begin with?
It isn't a question of Him "allowing" anything. He's the frickin' landlord.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by Phat, posted 07-28-2015 11:36 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 489 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 270 of 1444 (765456)
07-29-2015 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by Phat
07-28-2015 11:46 PM


Re: time and eternity
Phat writes:
I am thankful that we all do have Free Will because some day there will be no excuse that GOD foreordained us to a certain fate.
That's what it all comes down to, isn't it? You couldn't care less about us spending eternity in hell because you can convince yourself that it's our "choice".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by Phat, posted 07-28-2015 11:46 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 489 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 271 of 1444 (765457)
07-29-2015 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by Faith
07-28-2015 11:50 PM


Re: ** FOREknowledge**
Faith writes:
Now you are acting as if you believe YOU have foreknowledge, and know you are going to Hell?
No, I'm just taking Phat's theology, and yours, to its logical conclusion. You and Phat believe I'm going to Hell and you're okay with that. I don't believe there is a Hell (at least not beyond the hell on earth that we can create) but if your theology was correct, I'd rather be against your God than for him.
Faith writes:
How do you even know what YOU will choose or believe next year for that matter?
Right back at you: How do you know you won't come to your senses?
Faith writes:
But I'm also interested in the fact that you don't know how a person deserves Hell.
My understanding of Hell is similar to yours. Remember, I came from where you are. I know the drill. It's just that you put Hell in the same category as France whereas I put it in the same category as Never Never Land.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by Faith, posted 07-28-2015 11:50 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by Faith, posted 07-29-2015 3:43 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 489 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 274 of 1444 (765465)
07-29-2015 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 272 by Faith
07-29-2015 3:43 PM


Re: ** FOREknowledge**
Faith writes:
I often feel like grabbing you or others here by the shirt front and shaking you hoping to get you to accept the gospel.
I recommend that you try making sense instead.
Faith writes:
I really do know I'm not going to give up on the gospel myself, if only because I came to it so late in life after experiencing over forty years of life without it.
Same here. I'm still discarding the last vestiges of your so-called "gospel" after being shackled to it for forty years.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by Faith, posted 07-29-2015 3:43 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 280 by Faith, posted 07-29-2015 10:57 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 489 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 297 of 1444 (765516)
07-30-2015 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 280 by Faith
07-29-2015 10:57 PM


Re: ** FOREknowledge**
Faith writes:
The problem is that you say so many bizarre things that have nothing to do with the gospel as if they do, so there's really no evidence that you ever really were a believer.
You pick a funny time to rely on evidence.
And again, the "bizarre" things I say are backed up by scripture. The "orthodox" things that you say are not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by Faith, posted 07-29-2015 10:57 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 489 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 298 of 1444 (765517)
07-30-2015 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 292 by MrHambre
07-30-2015 10:12 AM


Re: Rant In One Hand
MrHambre writes:
The way we approach information depends on what we already believe.
You're stepping on your own tail there. "We" don't all have the same beliefs, so there is no such thing as "our" beliefs to colour our collective conclusions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 292 by MrHambre, posted 07-30-2015 10:12 AM MrHambre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 300 by MrHambre, posted 07-30-2015 12:11 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 489 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 302 of 1444 (765522)
07-30-2015 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 300 by MrHambre
07-30-2015 12:11 PM


Re: Rant In One Hand
MrHambre writes:
Every person individually has beliefs and assumptions through which he or she defines what constitutes "evidence," and what the "evidence" means.
That's why decisions on what "is" evidence are made collectively. One of the most common phrases in the English language is, "Did you see that?" We don't trust ourselves to determine unilaterally what is "evident".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 300 by MrHambre, posted 07-30-2015 12:11 PM MrHambre has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 489 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 335 of 1444 (765689)
08-04-2015 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 316 by GDR
08-02-2015 9:31 PM


Re: Foreknowledge and Free Will
GDR writes:
If Jesus was not resurrected then he was not only mistaken about a great deal but was highly delusional. Why would you want to follow a man like that?
Because the message is more important than the messenger.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 316 by GDR, posted 08-02-2015 9:31 PM GDR has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 489 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 336 of 1444 (765690)
08-04-2015 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 323 by GDR
08-03-2015 9:22 PM


Re: Foreknowledge and Free Will
GDR writes:
If Jesus isn't resurrected then the whole Christian faith is meaningless.
Only the meaningless part that you have tacked on is meaningless. The message still has meaning.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 323 by GDR, posted 08-03-2015 9:22 PM GDR has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 489 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 344 of 1444 (770098)
09-29-2015 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 342 by Phat
09-29-2015 10:38 AM


Re: Flickering Christians?
Phat writes:
If I had met a Grandfather who abused me, it would be easier to deny he ever existed.
If your grandfather abused you, it would not be reasonable to deny that he ever existed. It WOULD be reasonable to reject him.
Your analogy is flawed. We all know that our grandfathers existed, whether they were good or bad. We do NOT know whether or not God exists. It is reasonable to deny his existence, given the total lack of evidence that he does exist. Also, given the way he is described by his devotees, it is reasonable to reject him.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 342 by Phat, posted 09-29-2015 10:38 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 686 by Phat, posted 01-11-2019 4:17 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 489 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 353 of 1444 (773250)
11-27-2015 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 350 by Phat
11-26-2015 5:08 PM


Re: My Friend Flicka
Phat writes:
In some cases evidence is internal.
No it isn't. You don't get to change the meaning of words.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 350 by Phat, posted 11-26-2015 5:08 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 355 by Phat, posted 11-27-2015 11:36 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 489 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 356 of 1444 (773253)
11-27-2015 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 355 by Phat
11-27-2015 11:36 AM


Re: My Friend Flicka
Phat writes:
Well who gets to define them then?
Communication requires a sender, a receiver and a channel. The sender and receiver have to use the same meanings of words for communication to occur. If I say, "I ate corn flakes for breakfast," and you interpret that as, "I ate live kittens for breakfast," then we have failed to communicate.
You can NOT use the word "evidence" for any damn thing you please. If it isn't evidence, don't call it evidence. It's that simple.
What is it with you believers, anyway? Is your faith so weak that you have to prop it up by pretending you have evidence?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 355 by Phat, posted 11-27-2015 11:36 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 357 by Phat, posted 11-27-2015 12:04 PM ringo has replied

  
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