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Author | Topic: Free will vs Omniscience | |||||||||||||||||||||||
candle2 Member Posts: 850 Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
You do believe in fairy tales.
You believe that over hundreds of millions of years a frog really turned into a princess. Do you have a photograph of a chimpanzee-monkey looking creature hanging on your wall?Do you tell everyone that this is a photograph of your long dead forefather? Do you stare at this photo and smile when you realize that he is who you inherited your intelligence from?
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candle2 Member Posts: 850 Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Lot sat in the gates of Sodom, which means that he gave advice. However, he was seen as a hypocrite. He wanted to be accepted by his adopted city, but he also wanted to protect the hospitality of his home
He was wrong (I believe) to offer his daughters, but I don't think that Lot was a very righteous man. If he had not been Abraham's nephew God might have allowed him to perish with Sodom and her sister cities. Lot allowed himself to get drunk twice, and in both instances his daughters had sex with him. And please note: because the Bible describes something doesn't mean that the Bible prescribes, or endorse said behavior. In any event, the sisters were the progenitors of the modern country of Jordan. Perhaps, this is why God spared them. The men of Sodom rejected the girls. They wanted the men.
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I saw your comment and was reminded of this article: Too Simple to Be Wrong: Atheism’s Bronze-Age Goat Herder Conceit
Notable Quote: quote: ringo always tells me that God is not going to "do it". But where is the evidence that says that most of the wisdom of the Psalms and Proverbs is outdated for modern day application? Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
candle2 writes:
Well, it doesn't exactly say that - but in any case, it misses the point. If Lot knew the people of Sodom well enough to give them advice, why would he offer them women? If he thought the men of Sodom wanted men, per se, why wouldn't he offer himself, for example? The men of Sodom rejected the girls. They wanted the men.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You are the evidence that God is not going to do it. ringo always tells me that God is not going to "do it". But where is the evidence that says that most of the wisdom of the Psalms and Proverbs is outdated for modern day application? As for Psalms and Proverbs, I have never said that there is no wisdom there.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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candle2 Member Posts: 850 Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Lot was an old man. Understand this: the men of Sodom wanted the two men (angels). Philosophy won't change this factt.
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
candle2 writes:
It has nothing to do with philosophy; it's about what the text says. If Lot thought the men of Sodom were homosexuals, why would he offer them women? Lot was an old man. Understand this: the men of Sodom wanted the two men (angels). Philosophy won't change this factt. Are you suggesting that Lot was too senile to know the difference? Yes, the men of Sodom wanted the angels. The reason why they wanted them is not as simplistic as you claim.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9140 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
He was 205 years old when he died. (Genesis 11:32) That pretty much proves that it is just a fable.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Lot would never offer himself as that likely went against his own personal feelings. Granted, I see evidence on the internet of Christians acting like jerks. To wit:
It seems that many Christians are insecure of their own beliefs and feel a need to bully out competing views. I myself would likely be accused of compromising my own faith in pointing this out---but I need to be honest.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
And offering his daughters wouldn't go against his own personal feelings? Lot would never offer himself as that likely went against his own personal feelings.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8527 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
And offering his daughters wouldn't go against his own personal feelings? No. Not at all. Lot had so many daughters he understood their motivations and desires. Both daughters would have done as Lot commanded them, especially Paltith, who was quite eager to get out there and get going. But, alas, the two hardcore alt-right angels, the republicans of their era, shut the whole thing down, kicked Lot and family out of town then called in an air strike and leveled the joint. It's ok, though. Paltith got what she wanted when the old man tied one on one night and passed out on the floor which makes me somewhat jealous since whenever I've been that lit I couldn't stand at full salute to save my life. Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Hmm.... According to Wikipedia, "Lot's daughters may have feared that they were the last humans on earth and wanted to preserve the human race."
An end-of-the-world Dr. Strangelove kind of thing?And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9140 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
In other words people can read anything into the text that they want.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Theodoric writes:
Yeah. The text does seem to suggest homosexual rape but it's funny (not ha-ha) how fundies focus on the homosexual part and not the rape part. In other words people can read anything into the text that they want.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
The fictional character "Satan" represents our own free will. What "Satan" wants IS what we want. Every time we're tempted to do something that we "shouldn't", we're wanting to be independent of God. And you trust your senses and logic in making these choices. ringo writes: What if Hell was marketed as a cool destination, like Bermuda. Would it be possible to be fooled by the brochures? ...I have never chosen to go to Hell and I never will.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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