Free will vs Omniscience

Do humans define God? Is it possible that God exists apart from human definition?

Why is it that the apologists of necessity market a false God? What characteristics make this God false? And if so, by what method can we determine what God is actually like?

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"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
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We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer

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The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
- Criss Jami, Killosophy

Good questions. Both are possible.For non-Christian gods, they are defined by human.For Christian God, God is "understood" by human through human wisdom and the Bible. We put those understanding together and organized it by logic, then we present the most likely definition of God.In Christianity, to have (not to create) a definition of God (i.e. to know who is God) is the first step to discuss and to understand anything else in the Bible. This may not be true for other religions.

I guess only Christians can ask a good question like this.A god is false when the theology about that god is incomplete and is logically flawed.

Go away kid. Back to the small table.

Yes, of course any and every god humans can discuss is created by humans and only exits in the minds of humans. Because it is easy and profitable and gives them a feeling of power. Also because they simply don't know how to think and never acknowledge the utter silliness and contradictions built into the god they market. The fact that they market an omniscient creator of all that is seen and unseen who also judges creation and rewards or punishes that creation. Short of dying I cannot see any possible way and all the evidence supports the fact that no one has ever done so.

As I said, your argument is with Phat, not me. He's trying to remove omniscience from God to remove God's responsibility. But you can use it to demonstrate that God is evil.

I respect your honesty. I disagree with your assertion that God can never be known yet there is no way that I can describe to you how I feel it is possible in my own life. About all I can do is keep chatting with you guys and not spend too much time isolated with my computer and not actually out making a difference.

How silly! If God is omniscient there is little I can do about it....and if He is a fig newton of human imagination I sure am fooled!

How does the way you feel differ from the way the Mulim feels about Allah or the Hindi feels about Ganesh or the Buddhist feels about Buddha or the Satanist feels about Satan or ...

Woah. Full Stop.Does not Matthew 25 imply such a judgement?You guys argue that God must be evil, yet you describe evil as a human derived condition. This is why i believe in a Spiritual war of sorts. We are talking about two spirits. One is the Holy Spirit Creator of all seen and unseen. The other is the Angel Who Would Be King. We have no real way of knowing if we will be judged, how we will be judged, and if there is anything that can be done to pardon such behavior. We have no basis on which to judge God as evil unless and until we actually know Him.

Until I walk a mile in another mans shoes I have no clue about how his feet feel. Likewise, I have no way of knowing how each of these hypothetical people relate to their concept of a power greater than themselves who is God to them. Really, I feel called only to work out my own salvation with fear and trembling. I can give insights, but I cant do the job for anyone else.

You really really can't read can you or is it that you really really don't want to read.We can certainly judge the god you and the Apologists market and that is what I and the others have been explaining to you if, and only if, you actually read and comprehend what is being explained to you.The issue is not with any judgement, it is with the very act of creation. The god you and the Apologists try to market has been judged and found wanting long before Matthew 25.

Once again you simply refuse to think about what is said to you and respond with sillies.Each of the others mentioned make the very same claims about the god they market as you make about your creation.What makes your feelings valid?

There are only three ways of finding out about this god of yours1. Personal revelation. This is delusional but you and many others believe it. The major problem with it as far as evidence goes is that it's personal to you so meaningless to others and that the revelations differ between individuals indicating their personal manufacture - we make the god we want to believe in. (Hence your rejection of much of Jesus's message.)2. The Bible. The source of ALL information. The multitude of problem with this as a source of factual 'truth' have been discussed to death here. But it's all you have.3. Other people. Priests, apologists, bloggers, everyman and his dog. All these people derive their opinions from 1 or 2 above so are the worst possible source - third hand 'knowledge' from people with no more information than yourself applying their own prejudices to the message. You don't have to, many of us have experienced it for ourselves. You're not special Phat.

Nothing silly about it. You have been trying to argue for months that God is not responsible for "our decisions" and you have been shown many times that if He is omniscient and irresponsible, He must be evil. It has nothing to do with what YOU can do about it. It's about what GOD can do about it.