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Author Topic:   If prayers go unanswered....?
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 444 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 37 of 201 (195985)
04-01-2005 7:53 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Thor
03-31-2005 6:32 AM


Cool
Thats all fine and dandy, and God knows your heart.
God creates us all for a purpose. How would you find out what that purpose is, unless you seek him? You might be missing out on something grand.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Thor, posted 03-31-2005 6:32 AM Thor has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 444 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 38 of 201 (195986)
04-01-2005 7:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by clpMINI
03-30-2005 5:41 PM


God answers all prayers
Sometimes the answer is no.
Try listening when you pray.

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 Message 1 by clpMINI, posted 03-30-2005 5:41 PM clpMINI has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by nator, posted 04-01-2005 9:24 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 444 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 39 of 201 (195990)
04-01-2005 8:05 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by nator
03-31-2005 7:30 PM


What if?
You claim that your prayers have been answered, and I tell you that you don't really know if they have or not.
What if I listen when I pray and God starts telling me things, like what to do, or to pray for certain people. To pray for them concerning a certain matter, which I would have known nothing about.
I had a dream that my Pastor was walking hip high in mud, on a Saturday night. Sunday morning during service, I drew the picture of him walking in the mud, and just as I finished the picture, he said to the whole church that he felt like he was standing hip high in mud. I then handed him the picture.
I am a worship leader in my church, and for the last 5 weeks I’ve prayed on Saturday for the service, and ask God for words that are relative to the congregation. I write them down, and when I came in, the other worship leader has the same words (subject) written out, just worded slightly differently. Then the Pastor starts the service, and he starts it with our words, but we haven't showed him what we believe God has told us.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by nator, posted 03-31-2005 7:30 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by nator, posted 04-01-2005 9:34 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 444 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 44 of 201 (196012)
04-01-2005 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by nator
04-01-2005 9:24 AM


Re: God answers all prayers
Whats so hard to understand about the concept of, that all prayers are answered, sometimes the answer is no.
It's not our purpose to be fulfilled, but his.
When we do all things, it must be for the glory of God.
What is life without tests? How do we get to know how great we are?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by nator, posted 04-01-2005 9:24 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by nator, posted 04-03-2005 9:11 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 444 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 142 of 201 (197210)
04-06-2005 8:45 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by nator
04-03-2005 9:11 AM


Re: God answers all prayers
If the outcome is the same, why bother?
This is an unqualified subjective answer.
There is no objective proof that prayer works or doesn't work.
What I do receive when the answer is no, is why.
The other thing I noticed, and this is all subjective, is that the more I abide in the Lord, and pray according to his will, the more my prayers are answered yes. It's all about faith.
Jesus said we could move mountains with our faith. How many here have stood in front of a mountain and tried to move it? The thoughts that run through your mind at that moment, is the battle of faith inside of us. For I believe if we truely believed with all our hearts, that mountain would indeed move. My faith is not strong enough to move that mountain. That is an honest statement.
However, I have faith that God will provide certain things in my life, and he never let's me down, when my faith is 100%.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by nator, posted 04-03-2005 9:11 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by nator, posted 04-06-2005 9:30 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 144 by LinearAq, posted 04-06-2005 10:12 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 444 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 148 of 201 (197271)
04-06-2005 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by nator
04-01-2005 9:34 AM


Re: What if?
Do you have verification from those people, or another outside source, that these "things you shouldn't know about" are actually valid?
If you tell someone something that is extremely relative to what they are experiencing in life at that particular moment, and they confirm and say yes, isn't that proof enough?
When I pray for people, sometimes, I get specific things to say to them. I try my best to do it in an encouraging way, without the need for to many details, unless the person feels like telling me.
Also, have you considered that you might have heard these things from somebody else but have forgotten that you ever learned them?
Yes, I have, and that is the reason why I do not fall for to many things. I am very aware of how a concept could be brought about, and I do not want to go around praising something that just isn't there.
An example would be: at my church there was a baptism, and with three separate cameras, there were "orbs" in the pictures. Everyone got so excited, and thought there were angelic orbs floating about. I however did not fall pray to this. I did some investagating, and discovered the real cause of the orbs, and had to break the news to them. It was a difficult situation, but I am a realist, to the best of my abilities.
Is this mud comment something he says on occasion? What was the theme of his sermon that day? Was the theme posted anywhere for the week before?
It wasn't the theme, it was him speaking prophetically. There was no mention of mud, or being stuck in the mud the week before either, or ever. He is not a person to feel that way. I did examine that myself, to help me understand where the dream came from.
Just like you, I have a hard time believing this stuff sometimes. I get amazed, and constantly look for a reason not to believe. Shame on me, I know, but it is my human nature, which I am very aware of.
Anyway, what does this have to do with prayer? That was a dream.
To show that God does speak to us, that is the connection between dreams, visions, and prayers.
The silly stuff of the bible
Over one third of the bible is dreams and visions.
We actually have dream interpreters in our church. This is a whole other subject, one of which I am still learning about, and intend to take courses on. However, it is not necessary to take a course to interpret a dream from God. All you need is for God to tell you the meaning.
You, the Pastor and this other person are independently coming up with similar subject matter five times in a row?
Make it six, now.
The three of you have not discussed the following week's topic at all, have no contact between services?
No we haven't discussed the topic. The prophetic words I am speaking of, have nothing to do with the topic anyway.
I have contact with between services, not every week, and when we do, it has nothing to do with what was said on Sunday.
I have seen the spirit move in strange ways. In our church, I have seen the music go one for hours, and everyones face turn into the face of a laughing child. People were falg dancing, grabbing banners, and marching around the church. It was one of the craziest things I ever saw. I am a musician there, and was playing the music, and could not believe what we were playing. We were doing all percussion for about an hour, and it was a latin rythm, something that doesn't come easy to a bunch of "white folks" who never practiced it before(chuckle). To this day when we speak of that day, the same expression comes back to those who were there. Mere words cannot describe what happened that day.
I know to you this sounds just nuts, but thats ok. Maybe one day if you get to experience it, you will relate to this.
Also, did you pray for this exact thing to happen, or are you just thinking it's spooky after it happened, so you attribute it to prayer?
Easter had nothing to do with it.
I did not pray for this to happen. I was praying and asking God for words to give to the church. These are the thoughts that came to my head, in a small still voice.
The other 2 happened to be the same thing.
Sometimes, we can get the words, on the way to the church.
Yes, it's spooky, but awesome.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by nator, posted 04-01-2005 9:34 AM nator has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 444 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 149 of 201 (197273)
04-06-2005 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by nator
04-06-2005 9:30 AM


Let's see your detailed records of all of your specific oucomes prayed for and the hit/miss rate which shows the statistical analysis.
You say you don't have such a thing?
Yes, I do have such a thing, but it is not up for scrutiny.
As I have stated before it is all subjective. I am well aware of this.
It is also not my job to "prove to you" anything of the sort.
It is up to you to find out for yourself.
Yes, I am asking you to take my word for it, for it is what I believe at this point in time.
By the same token, you cannot go around telling everyone that it is proven that prayer does not work.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by nator, posted 04-06-2005 9:30 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by nator, posted 04-06-2005 6:26 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 444 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 150 of 201 (197275)
04-06-2005 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by LinearAq
04-06-2005 10:12 AM


Re: God answers all prayers
Faith is what separates us from the Angels. for they know who God is, they are there next to him. The bible says we will judge angels, and the angels will serve us.
I believe that is because we have to find God through faith. It's one of the things that people complain about in here, committing to something that doesn't exist so that you can believe in it.
Many people, including myself ask that question, "If there is a God, why doesn't he come down and show himself to me?"
Well he did come down and show himself, and for me it was my ignorance of the bible, and all of what it means that kept me from finding out who God is.
Yes, sin relates to bad things happening in our lives, but it is not exclusive. Sometimes we just have to go through tests, it is what makes us better.
There are many promises that God makes in the bible, that he keeps, providing you keep your faith in him.
When I pray to God, I really don't do much asking, I do more thanking for all that I have, and ask not what I need of myself, but what I can do for him, and others around me.
I also ask for forgivness, for all that I do wrong.
I do not hold God responsible for bad things that happen, but ask for clarification as to why it happened, for peace, and triumph over my fears.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by LinearAq, posted 04-06-2005 10:12 AM LinearAq has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 444 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 154 of 201 (197351)
04-06-2005 9:11 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by nator
04-06-2005 6:26 PM


What I most certainly can go around telling everyone, however, is that, thus far, any time the effectivness of prayer has been properly tested, the only positive results observed has been when people have been prayd for in their presence, and given a feeling of community and support by the prayer. Sick people who were prayed for who didn't know they were being prayed for showed no difference in recovery rates, etc.
But it's also true that healing/recovery rates are better regardless of prayer activitis if the person has a lot of love and support.
I see a lot of truth in this statement, and it is something I have wondered about. But if I think about it, Jesus said the second greatest commandment was to love others as we love ourselves.
I believe that, that love is part of what provides the healing. To me it's sharing the love of Jesus, and God with people, is the most awesome part of being a Christian. I was always loving before, but it has increased since being saved, and coming to better understanding of God's true love for me(us). It's so pure and wonderful, and I work to make it purer, by decreasing sin, forgiving others, and praying. I see this method working in my life, and affecting others around me. But I give the glory to God, for calling me out, and showing me the way.
Check out this web-site, and you can see the effects of prayer, and soothing music, and love, even though it's not a Christian web-site.
Page not found – Spirit of Ma'at
They do these experiments with water, and our bodies are made up of mostly water. Interesting to say the least.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by nator, posted 04-06-2005 6:26 PM nator has not replied

  
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