If prayers go unanswered....?

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Please understand that I am only responding as a believer. Some of what I say may well seem strange, perhaps even illogical. I am not trying to persuade you to accept anything I say, but only hope that it will help you understand the mindset that leads to such beliefs.

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I think this sums it up well. It is illogical, but that is the entire point. If it was logical then everyone would be doing it. I was raised in the Church and I understand the ins and outs of the theology behind prayer. It is illogical and irrational, but so what. It is religion afterall, a philosophy that is not meant to have complete consistency.I have often mulled the answered prayer vs. unanswered prayer many times. The "christian" answer is that all those who pray with a pure heart will have their prayers answered, even if the answer is not what they wanted. The analogy to the magical fifth bowl of ice cream is legitimate, but it also is lacking. It would seem to me that pain and suffering can also be God's answer to prayer, such as in the case of disease visited upon God's followers.It is a hard pill for me to swallow, and is echoed in the thoughts of many atheists/agnostics here at this site. Many ask "How can I tell the difference between an answered prayer and the absence of God?" I think the answer is "you can't" which is where faith comes in. I am not here to belittle anyone who thinks that their prayers have been answered because I fully believe it is by faith alone that they claim this. However, it will never make sense to those who do not have faith for very apparent and viable reasons.What troubles me is that some christians think that applying scientific methodology to prayer is a viable means of producing evidence of God's existence. Even as a non-believer, it makes me cringe when this is done.

I think, again from a believers POV, that a little more needs to be added to what you said. Perhaps this is excess or unneeded, but it makes me feel better to bring it up.Pain and suffering, whether of a believer or non-believer, are just part of life. IMHO GOD has given us many ways of dealing and alleviating much of it. We learn more each day about desease, its treatment and prevention, and also more about how to alleviate less understood pains such as metal anguish, regrets and concerns.But there is more as well. Often, the strengths a person develops when dealing with trials makes the person better. Courage, sacrifice, striving, ambition even cooperation, inspiration and innovation are often the direct results of such challenges.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Pain and suffering, whether of a believer or non-believer, are just part of life. IMHO GOD has given us many ways of dealing and alleviating much of it. We learn more each day about desease, its treatment and prevention, and also more about how to alleviate less understood pains such as metal anguish, regrets and concerns.

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I am probably beating the proverbial dead horse as well, but here goes.I understand what you are saying. But at the same time praying for the alleviation of these maladies is one of the more popular subjects of prayer. Then again, the prayers also include "Help [insert name] deal with this disease", so it can be consistent with what you are saying. I think we can both agree that asking through prayer for pain and anguish is not very popular.In this vein, the story of Job often comes to mind. This subject has been beat to death, so I will leave it at that.

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But there is more as well. Often, the strengths a person develops when dealing with trials makes the person better. Courage, sacrifice, striving, ambition even cooperation, inspiration and innovation are often the direct results of such challenges.

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To my mind, the same things could be granted without suffering. Why do we need innovative cures if there were no disease to begin with? That is the question that comes to mind. Of course, as with the fifth bowl of ice cream, it may be short sighted and childish.

I think the issue you bring up in your last paragraph is a very important one. I've discussed part of my position on it in other threads, perhaps with you, possibly sidelined, brian, schraff or one of the others. When you get old your memory tends to come and go. Hopefully you're there on those few occasions when it drops in. All too often I find a note from my memory saying "I stopped by but no one was home."Found a note in my pocket the other day. It was obviously old, but not very old. Said "be sure to bring home two. "?????? Did I? Should I? Two what? This is not the best place to expand into the area of why there is pain, suffering and desease but if you ever want to start a thread on it I'd be happy to participate.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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I think the issue you bring up in your last paragraph is a very important one. I've discussed part of my position on it in other threads, perhaps with you, possibly sidelined, brian, schraff or one of the others. When you get old your memory tends to come and go. Hopefully you're there on those few occasions when it drops in. All too often I find a note from my memory saying "I stopped by but no one was home."

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Yeah, it does seem familiar. I hate that feeling too. I often set timers to remind me to do something but then forget what I am supposed to do when the timer goes off. It's a terrible feeling.Anyway, I think we hit a good stopping point.

Well, thank you for an enlightening and challenging discussion. I always enjoy such moments when folk can discuss differing positions without resorting to name calling.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion