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Author Topic:   rapture ready
jar
Member
Posts: 31453
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 61 of 128 (332877)
07-18-2006 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Hyroglyphx
07-18-2006 11:50 AM


OT but maybe I can pull it back.
nemesis_juggernaut asked:

Explain to me how you are a Conservative Christian Republican:

1. Do you believe that Jesus is the Son of god?
2. Who did you vote for in the last 4 Presidential runnings?
3. Do you believe that morality is absolute?

I am a conservative Christian Republican because I am a Christain, registered Republican and espouse a conservative agenda.

I believe that Jesus is the Son of GOD.

Who I voted for is absolutely none of your business. In the US one gets to vote in secret and one votes ones conscience and beliefs.

And morality is not absolute.

But none of that has anything to do with the madness that is the End-Timers. The concept of some pending Armaggedon is simply silly, but unfortunately when there are people in positions of great power that believe in it, it is also something to be feared.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-18-2006 11:50 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
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RickJB
Member (Idle past 3273 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006


Message 62 of 128 (332881)
07-18-2006 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Hyroglyphx
07-18-2006 11:50 AM


Re: One of the greatest dangers facing mankind.
If the US had REALLY considered Iraq a threat they wouldn't have attacked.

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 Message 59 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-18-2006 11:50 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5826
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 63 of 128 (332884)
07-18-2006 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by arachnophilia
07-18-2006 10:48 AM


Re: Misconceptions
well, not neccessarily. first of all, semites are all the sons of shem, and that include arabs.

Exactly, but try explaining that to a peoples who just discredit the Bible. You point to Genesis 10 and they have no idea what its talking about. But you and I both know that its customary that Semites in modern terms it refers to Jews. But yes, Arabs come from the line of Shem as well.

and being hebrew-friendly doesn't require supporting every crazed zionist rant -- especially the ones that go off on the neighbours of zion.

Yes, very true. And I'm fully aware that Israel has its fair share of nutbags too. And I don't support them in any way. Half of the time I don't agree with any of Israels political idealogies. They are a nation just as polarized on the issues as America. But really, don't you think this coddling of only Palestine is incredibly unfair? I mean, the media has succesfully painted this picture that Israelis tromp through the streets like a bunch of Stormtroopers bent on destruction. It looks an awful lot like to me that they are are, you know, trying to exist. And certain special interest groups feel that they are unfit to exist. That's bs.

i'm all in support of a solid and peaceful state of israel. but that doesn't mean that i can't think israel should stay out palestine or lebanon.

At what point should Israel fight back? They aren't randomly attacking civilians. Is there going to be collateral damage? Yes. There was collateral damage in Iraq too, even despite precision weapons. I couldn't count on my fingers or toes how many times Israel has been attacked and has done nothing except sit on their hands. And the only reason they do so is because the US and UK implore them too. Because we all know what's going to happen. Now its happening.

i have a very deep respect for judaism in general, but that doesn't mean i have to support every extremist religious idea than any jewish person comes up with. are you going to call me an anti-semite too, for not supporting the modern zionist movement? i was quite amused when faith accused me of antisemitism -- lots of cognitive dissonance on that one. here i am signing all my posts in hebrew, and consistently arguing a jewish point of view on scripture, and i'm a jew-hater?

I don't know you well enough to call you an anti-semite. You don't give me that impression. You seem like a reasonable man/woman, unlike some of the other counterparts who are more of the malicious, ad hom'ish type who seem incapable of being reasoned with. And no, I don't expect you to swallow some radical Zionist notion. But we forget so quickly that these arguments are just a spin-off of Nazi propaganda. Its the same thing, different era. We're just waiting for the next Kristalnacht.

you can be anti-zionist without being anti-zion, or anti-israel, or anti-jew, or anti-semitic. i just happen to see the same kind of hate mongering in the zionist camps as i do in the fundamentalist islamic camps in palestine.

Well, I guess I would generally agree if only everyone was able to establish what "Zionism" actually means. Here is Dictionary.com's version. I happen to believe this is what Zionism really means and agree with it.

"A Jewish movement that arose in the late 19th century in response to growing anti-Semitism and sought to reestablish a Jewish homeland in Palestine. Modern Zionism is concerned with the support and development of the state of Israel"

somehow, that statistic does not suprise me.

Actually, I digress. I was born and raised in Miami which has a very large Jewish population. I think it used to be the highest population of Jews in the world. But I think that figure has changed. Israel is now the highest, 2nd to New York, and 3rd is South Florida. But then again, South Florida is a very large population, so I wouldn't know how to quantify that.

but yes, right now it is madness that anyone wants to move to anywhere in the middle east. but the particular point that i think brenna was highlighting is that most jews here are not israeli -- it's not their homeland; it's their holyland. they feel the connection to land not because they come from there, but because it is sacred to their faith.

The Jews are the only people to ever retain their entire, or nearly their entire, heritage, culture, religion, speech, etc afterbeing dispersed. And they haven't suffered one dispersion, they've suffered three major ones! Jews and their faith are practically homologous. For instance, a good friend I grew up with is a liberal Jew. There are many of them. He's in that limbo between God or no God, but for the most part he is secular. I asked him if he observes Jewish traditions. He conceded that he does. To which I replied, "But surely you are aware that Jewish tradition and the Torah go hand in hand. What meaning does Passover have apart from its religious symbolism?" He understood what I meant.

The point I'm trying to make is, Jews are a very unique peoples. They just are, right or wrong. There is no one earth like, right or wrong. And to be a Jew in their repatriated homeland must be very exciting for them. Instead of scoffing and mocking them, why aren't people celebrating that?

The reason is the Palestinians? What of the Palestinians? They've always been there! Actually, no, they haven't. After the Diaspora, Israel was scortched. It wasn't fertile land that it once or that is coming back today. And several missionary trips throughout many different ages revealed that it was little more than a Bedouin squat. Yes, the Crusaders captured the land. And yes, Moslems recaptureed it. But it never became the flourishing country that it was during the times the Jews inhabited it. Eventually, Israel was enveloped by the Ottoman Empire and when they collapsed, it was handed over to England. During that time, the Holocost ended, and thousands of surving Jews were displaced with nowhere to go. The timing couldn't have been more perfect, almost as if it were designed as such. (hint, hint, wink, wink). So the Balfort Declaration was signed. Immediately the Jews were met by resistance, even though the land was giving to them by the League of Nation (united nations). And they met resistence for one reason only.... the Dome of the Rock; the 3rd most holy site in Islam. Ever since then its been escalating into the disaster that it is today.


“Always be ready to give a defense to
everyone who asks you a reason for the
hope that is in you.”
–1st Peter 3:15

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by arachnophilia, posted 07-18-2006 10:48 AM arachnophilia has responded

Replies to this message:
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Discreet Label
Member (Idle past 3346 days)
Posts: 272
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 64 of 128 (332885)
07-18-2006 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Hyroglyphx
07-18-2006 11:50 AM


Re: One of the greatest dangers facing mankind.
This is possibly off topic but could you please clarify absolute morality? As in but how do you define absolute morality. I"ve had a hard time understanding the absolute morality because all the threads that have been made on it have had degenerated. And i need something that i can build on.

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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5826
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 65 of 128 (332891)
07-18-2006 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by Faith
07-18-2006 12:00 PM


Re: One of the greatest dangers facing mankind.
GO NJ!!

;)


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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5826
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 66 of 128 (332893)
07-18-2006 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by jar
07-18-2006 12:09 PM


Re: OT but maybe I can pull it back.
I am a conservative Christian Republican because I am a Christain, registered Republican and espouse a conservative agenda.

I believe that Jesus is the Son of GOD.

If you believe Jesus was the son of God then why don't you believe what He, Himself spoke to His disciples in Matthew concerning the End Times and how to recognize it? Why are End Timer's nuts for drawing logical conclusion coming straight from Scripture and current events?

Who I voted for is absolutely none of your business. In the US one gets to vote in secret and one votes ones conscience and beliefs.

But what you have disclosed is your vehement aversion towards Reagan and Bush Jr. So, right there I can cancel them off your ballot. That leaves Bush Sr and Slick Willy. Why so secretive?

And morality is not absolute.

If morality is not absolute then nothing is wrong and everything is permissable, including Israel in Lebanon and the US in Iraq.

Check mate.


“Always be ready to give a defense to
everyone who asks you a reason for the
hope that is in you.”
–1st Peter 3:15

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by jar, posted 07-18-2006 12:09 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 5586
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005


Message 67 of 128 (332905)
07-18-2006 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Hyroglyphx
07-18-2006 9:33 AM


Re: One of the greatest dangers facing mankind.
I don't know how old you were in the 80's, so perhaps you can't remember the prosperity of those times, but when Reagan took office, he had to clean up the small disaster that was the Carter Administration. And he did just that. He boosted the US morale far beyond its merits and he brought in a change for the better.

It's easy to make things look prosperous when you spend a lot of money and leave it to somebody else to pick up the tab. But that prosperity was illusory.

I was not a fan of Carter. But your view of him is highly distorted. The economic problems of his presidency were mainly due to the failed economic policies of the Nixon administration. Some of the improvements we saw in the 80s were a result of economic policies put into place by Carter and Paul Volker (appointed by Carter). And those Carter instituted policies would have been even more effective, were it not for huge budget deficit that Reagan ran up.

The military build up (for which some people say Reagan won the cold war) was also started by Carter.


Compassionate conservatism - bringing you a kinder, gentler torture chamber

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2210 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 68 of 128 (332908)
07-18-2006 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Hyroglyphx
07-18-2006 10:19 AM


Re: Misconceptions
The reality is that being anti-zionist is the same thing as anti-semitism.

i'm not any more anti-zionist than i am anti-any kind of government that thinks they have a mandate from god to do whatever they like. be they jews of crazy fundie bush. i dislike the very idea that someone's geneology, however minute, should guarantee them something that the rest of us have to work for or can never have. i thought we left behind inherited rights a long time ago?

and if anti-zionism is anti-semitism, what about all my anti-zionist jewish friends?

I'd think that would be welcomed

for that i'd have to dislike jews. i don't i dislike the idiotic mentality that most american jews have of picking out one specific if faint ancestry to worship. half of my family is scottish. it is reasonable to think of myself as a scot. if you had one great grandmother that makes you jewish, it is not quite so reasonable to think of yourself as 'genetically jewish' as opposed to the rest of your family that is german or russian or czech or irish or native american or english or french. i have a friend who i love dearly who is all of those things. but he thinks of himself as an israeli jew even though he's never been there nor has his family. and he has pale skin and dark red hair and nordo-russian features. it's stupid. but there is this odd mixing of religion and geneology and no one really knows where race begins and religion ends though said person is clearly not racially israeli and he's a practicing pagan. he's simply not jewish at all. but. he is, because his mother's line is jewish somewhere back there.

especially in lieu of what happens to them on a daily basis.

what happens to them on a daily basis? you mean in israel or here? cause let me tell you all the horible things that happen to jews on a daily basis in soflo.

The Jews DO believe in the Messiah

the jews do not believe in anything remotely resembling your messiah. they believe in a man, a real live non-divine man, who will sit on david's throne and unite the kingdom under the law of the lord. and that's just the part of it. the jews have believed in many messiahs. and such there havebeen. they are temporary, temporal problem solvers. they fix very real anguish. now would be a perfect time for a jewish messiah. but not a christian one. they are not looking for the descent of god to men. they are not looking for the four corners to shake. they are not looking for the end of the earth.

First of all, you could just as easily turn your argument around on yourself by making the unmistakable notion that Muslims are bringing in more Muslims to kil Jews.

quite so. but that argument is made all the time. my point is that it's not one sided. the jews are just as interested in having a monopoly on the holy land as the muslims are. i'm just the one person who dares to call the jews on their desires. it's no different than the christians. it's no different than the muslims. but the christians know their claim is weaker and they think if they help the jews they can sneak in every now and then.

Secondly, show me where in the Bible that it says Christians will bring Jews to Israel so that Jesus will come back?

are you really so dense that you missed that idea? i wasn't saying that it was written in scripture that blah blah blah bullshit. i was saying that in order to aid the side of the jews politically in israel, the christians are funding "homeland moves". if they dillute the opposing vote with zionist voices, they stand a chance of bringing about the necessary changes like rebuilding the temple which is a JEWISH requirement for the messiah.

So how we can we change what was already written in the annals of time?

we can't. i didn't say it was logical or consistent, i said it was happening. these people thing that if they manouver, they can make stuff happen faster. they're stupid and mistaken, but that's not my fault.

Both verses I cited were written 700 years before Jesus was alive. Both are unmistakably Messianic, thus invalidating that Jews don't believe in a Messiah, and also invalidates that it was inserted by Christians. Its all there if you take the time to read it.

i've read it. it's not talking about jesus. second time eh? the first time being out of egypt and the second time being the babylonian exile. they're not talking about the diaspora, they're talking about the exile.

However, the Jews will try to rebuild the physical Temple.

that's all i'm saying. and the christians are dumbly trying to help them.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-18-2006 10:19 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
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Discreet Label
Member (Idle past 3346 days)
Posts: 272
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 69 of 128 (332909)
07-18-2006 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Hyroglyphx
07-18-2006 12:44 PM


Re: OT but maybe I can pull it back.
And morality is not absolute.

If morality is not absolute then nothing is wrong and everything is permissable, including Israel in Lebanon and the US in Iraq.

Check mate.

That is an inappropriate arguement to state, especially when you have not explicitly (you have implied one) esatblished what absolute morality is. How can you point to absolute morality when you haven't defined it?(reply to this)

And how is a relative moral scale equivalent to nothing being wrong and everything being permissable?(reply to this)

Your check mate statement sounds very hollow and lacking at this time.


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ramoss
Member
Posts: 3122
Joined: 08-11-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 70 of 128 (332930)
07-18-2006 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Hyroglyphx
07-18-2006 8:11 AM


Re: Misconceptions

You are aware that the majority of Jews do not believe that the Messiah is Jesus, right? That's kind of why their ancestors handed Him over to be crucified in the first place. Furthermore, its impossible for mean, ole Israel to kill all the Muslims without killing themselves, being that they are nestled in between thousands, upon thousands of Muslim occupied land.

By definition , Jews do not think that Jesus is the Messiah. If they think Jesus is the Messiah, they are, by definition, Christians, not jews.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-18-2006 8:11 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

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jar
Member
Posts: 31453
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 71 of 128 (332956)
07-18-2006 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Hyroglyphx
07-18-2006 12:44 PM


Re: OT but maybe I can pull it back.
If morality is not absolute then nothing is wrong and everything is permissable, including Israel in Lebanon and the US in Iraq.

Oh really? If so then take it to one of the threads dealing with morality. But I will say NO ONE has ever been able to point to an absolute moral rule.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-18-2006 12:44 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
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MangyTiger
Member (Idle past 4636 days)
Posts: 989
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 07-30-2004


Message 72 of 128 (332957)
07-18-2006 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by nator
07-18-2006 7:58 AM


Did you note the sig of "ladyhen"?
"Helpmeet of Earl (since 1997)
Mama of Alyssa (age 4.5)"

This woman seems to define herself only through being someone's wife and someone's mother.

Almost as if she didn't exist as a person before being married and giving birth.

I wonder if it's more of a "doesn't exist as a person after being married and giving birth" - prior to that she was probably a person who's sole purpose was to find a fine upstanding Christian boy to be the helpmeet for.

I've seen a couple of things on the TV over here recently about the branch of the Christian fundy right that thinks women's only reason for existence is to be the wife of one generation of fundy male and the mother of another[1]. Any girl children are brought up with the sole aim of getting married - no chance for a career or anything like that.

[1]And apparently scrapbooking as you pointed out. Maybe that's a 'safe' hobby they can have - not much danger of being exposed to dangerous or idea or meeting any of them godless heathens while your working on cataloging your scrapbooks :)


Oops! Wrong Planet

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SuperNintendo Chalmers
Member (Idle past 4116 days)
Posts: 772
From: Bartlett, IL, USA
Joined: 12-27-2005


Message 73 of 128 (332970)
07-18-2006 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Hyroglyphx
07-18-2006 12:44 PM


Re: OT but maybe I can pull it back.
Deleted by me

Off Topic

Edited by SuperNintendo Chalmers, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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docpotato
Member (Idle past 3330 days)
Posts: 334
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 07-18-2003


Message 74 of 128 (332976)
07-18-2006 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by MangyTiger
07-18-2006 3:18 PM


And apparently scrapbooking as you pointed out. Maybe that's a 'safe' hobby they can have - not much danger of being exposed to dangerous or idea or meeting any of them godless heathens while your working on cataloging your scrapbooks

Hmm. The URL scrapbookingforsatan.com appears to be unpurchased at this time. Someone ought to fill that void.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by MangyTiger, posted 07-18-2006 3:18 PM MangyTiger has not yet responded

    
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2210 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 75 of 128 (333012)
07-18-2006 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by MangyTiger
07-18-2006 3:18 PM


that's probably the earliest thing that turned me off about the whole really religious thing. i am a person. i am not anyone's "helpmeet". i am not a hole for a penis and an incubator for a child. i have had career aspirations since i was a very young child and i have never had any interest in even considering putting those aside to be someone's wife. if someone wants to share his life and hopes and dreams with me, then he has to be willing to share in mine as well. if that means that i live in africa and my husband lives in poland, so be it. but i will not sit quietly nodding on the couch next to me brilliant and vocal fundy husband like so many christian wives.

i get that from my mom. <3 she was a just mom after i was born, but she was never just a wife.


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