God is good and evil

You're right, I should have checked.But if you're not stepping up to defend him, then why did you reply? I don't see what the numbers have to do with it. Just because Christians think they're making an informed decision doesn't mean they are. Somebody with the wisdom, power, and knowledge to do it perfectly and easily? I don't think that's hypocritical in the least. And I observe that when folks keep track, it turns out God does nothing at all.

"But if you're not stepping up to defend him, then why did you reply?"Hey, just because I disagreed with someting you said in reply doesn't mean I agree with the original message."Just because Christians think they're making an informed decision doesn't mean they are."Touche."Somebody with the wisdom, power, and knowledge to do it perfectly and easily? I don't think that's hypocritical in the least."As for right now that's a good arguement that I don't have an answer for just yet; I'll be back probably tomorrow with a response."And I observe that when folks keep track, it turns out God does nothing at all. "Who's 'folks'? I know/hear of lots of 'folks' who kept track and claim God's changed their life.Anyway, it's real late and I'm gonna get some sleep(I know it's late when I get 5 penis-enlarger popups a minute). More tomorrow.

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Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit.

People trained to avoid personal confirmation biases who run prayer studies. It's no good to just keep track of how many of your own prayers God answers. You have to keep track of how many other people's aren't being answered. If we both pray to win the same coin toss, only one of us can win (for sake of argument, you). The fact that your prayer was answered is not statistically significant when you factor in my unanswered prayer - we conclude therefore that praying obviously didn't affect the outcome of the toss.

Hi Crash, If I may reply as well..You raise a interesting point here. If ones prayers are answered and another's are denied then IF there is a God it would make sense that he must remain impartial for the very reason that answering one prayer disallows anothers. Many Christians believe that God is all good and incapable of evil. I contend that good and evil are 'human' concepts and are irrelevant where God is concerned if he does infact exist. I also realize that from a atheist stand point this would translate into "what good is a God if he is insusiant to the activities of universe?" If one ponders the existance of a being who is omnipotent and benevolent as God is often described then the question of why did he even bother with a creation of the universe in the first place? Why would a all powerful being NEED or want to do anything if he is perfect and complete as is?I asked this question many times. Maybe it/she, he just did it just because it/she, he could. This of course is just personal pondering and NOT a claim that a God exist. Peace *edit to delete typo[This message has been edited by 1.61803, 04-20-2004]

I would like to expand this idea quickly.Assume God is absolutely perfect before creation. Any variation or change from absolute perfection is by definition imperfect. Any action God performs, being a change or variation from absolute perfection, would be imperfect. Therefore an absolutely perfect God would not create the universe, hell he wouldn't do anything and as a result would be changeless and unable to act in anyway.Anyone see any problems with this?

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Freedom, morality, and the human dignity of the individual consists precisely in
this; that he does good not because he is forced to do so, but because he freely
conceives it, wants it, and loves it.
- Mikhail Bakunin, God and the State, from The Columbian Dictionary of Quotations

If the evolution of dominance interdicts the place of any base pair becuase of time differences between heat transfer and ionic titration equilibrium your GOD would not be necessary as to the perfection you supposed I suppose but one would be able to believe whatever their flesh felt like. Kant was no dupe to keep morality out of the jackass and my Grandfather was perceptive enough to have followed Simpson to keep horses in the genus Equus not AsSSSSSSSSSinus. But what do I know about uniformity of disruptive selection?

"Assume God is absolutely perfect before creation. Any variation or change from absolute perfection is by definition imperfect."Agreed, but God himself didn't change, he just made something.Let's say for a minute that Born2Preach is God. You all must worship Born2Preach or else wrath, brimstone, wrath, more brimstone, and wrath some more.When Born2Preach makes a dog out of clay, is he one with the dog? No, he MADE the dog, he is not the dog.Anyway, I'll deflate my ego back to normal size and get back to the topic. When people create things, they are not the things they create. They can be in them, around them, etc., but they aren't the objects. Same thing with God.Hope that made sense, please reply if there's any problems.

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Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit.

Okay, but there are lots of recorded times when prayers did make a difference in healing. But nevermind, because how many prayers got answered or unanswered won't convince anybody on either side.I was talking about much more than a coin toss, mind you. Kind of like how you were talking about more than shin-kicking.

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Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit.

No, there's not. There's times when people have healed sometime around when they were praying.But if the presence or absence of prayer has no meaningful statistical effect on who gets healed or not, then there's no reason to assume that whether or not they prayed had anything to do with it. It would convince me. An irrefutable weight of evidence that showed a statistically significant effect of prayer - and not just of positive thinking - would convince me that prayer worked.[This message has been edited by crashfrog, 04-20-2004]

did jesus not say "ye are gods"
that kinda throws ur arguement out the window

How could god be in two places at once? Well He is God! But i think you were talking about Jesus right? Gods human manifestation, well as a human its probably safe to say that he was never in two places at once except for maybe in peoples dreams ... but thats not a physical place is it.
Yes i believe the spirit is everywhere, god is everywhere part of everything / everyone

Where did freewill come from if God did not make it? How can something just exist alongside god wouldnt that make it the same as god or gods equal?If you tell a kid not to go onto the street he might not know the danger of going onto the street but will have been given enough knowledge to know that going onto the road will angre you. It is the same thing with Adam and Eve, except going against Gods commands is not just wrond its "evil". If God had instructed humanity to avoid the entire dualistic realm of evil then he had to have educated them as to what was evil and what was good, ie following his commands abiding by his rules, or going against them and suffering the consequences.

Hi compmage, This very point has been a hotly debated subject amoung theologians for ages, Saint Thomas Aquinas wrote of this and from what I read in the Summa Theologica , God is Perfect, and Being in itself. His decision to create was not a 'variation' from his perfect state. God being perfect made a decision to share this perfection, or love. He did not have to do it. He did it out of love. This is simply a Catholic interpretation and NOT a statement of fact or truth. Take care.

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"One is punished most for ones virtues" Fredrick Neitzche

How did God "make something". Did he way his hand? Then he changed his physical state. Did he think it into being? Then he changed his mental state. In order to perform any action, God has to change something about himself, even if that change isn't permanant. Given that change from absolute perfection is by definition imperfect, an absolutly perfect being wouldn't be able to act.

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Freedom, morality, and the human dignity of the individual consists precisely in
this; that he does good not because he is forced to do so, but because he freely
conceives it, wants it, and loves it.
- Mikhail Bakunin, God and the State, from The Columbian Dictionary of Quotations

How can it not be? As I explained to Born2Preach, any action or decission requires a change in state (either physical or mental). A being cannot action without change and any change from absolute perfection is be definition imperfect.Given that this isn't your argument though, I don't expect you to defend it.

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Freedom, morality, and the human dignity of the individual consists precisely in
this; that he does good not because he is forced to do so, but because he freely
conceives it, wants it, and loves it.
- Mikhail Bakunin, God and the State, from The Columbian Dictionary of Quotations