What is GOD?

Sidelined, how goes the dance,old chap? You say that it disturbs you that believers in general claim that they know a Supreme and absolute truth and cannot be wrong. Right?One of the prerequisites for belief in an absolute truth is the conviction that "wrong" is not an option.It seems to me, then, that the issue that disturbs you is the fact that believers never allow relativistic thinking to get very far in their belief. To me, this must mean that you are quite open to all types of persuasion and further knowledge of the definitions of God and of "The" Truth. Perhaps, further, you really can't see the possibility of such a narrow exclusionary viewpoint.
How is my analysis so far? To break it down another way, you say that "I would like to ask instead what god is and why they consider their POV to be correct."
In essence, you are stating that you are challenging the idea of an absolute truth POV. You would rather that all POV's be equally relative to the individual. So...in other words, your source of truth is the individual human. For you, it is you. For me, it should be limited to me and my POV. This bothers me because my concept of truth is inclusive to everyone. One cannot have a drum and bugle corps with everyone marching to their own beat! Human nature is a mystery, is it not? It all goes back to one of my repetitive questions:
Did man imagine all concepts of belief initially or is there one or more Creators who in fact imagined us into existance initially?? In other words, what is the original source of creation/wisdom? Is this source defined as the evolutionary understanding of the human animal or is there a higher mystical and omnipotant source??This message has been edited by Phatboy, 06-08-2005 10:45 AMThis message has been edited by Phatboy, 06-08-2005 10:51 AM

Because humans cannot imagine Him. He is only properly conceived through human interactions. This is why Jesus gives a clear insight into His Fathers personality.God is perceived when one is driving on empty and all rational possibilities of gasoline calculations spell being stranded in the desert. And yet you make it the extra 125 miles on E to the station.God is perceived when your conscience feels a "check" about the rationality or lack of same happening around you.God gives you words to say when you need to say them yet have been slacking off in your studies.God is that sparkle that comes from your friend who...although rarely helpful...says just what needs to be said and you can see the love and joy in their character at that moment.God is supernatural because God is extraordinary. He is extraordinarily illogical until you realize your own hypocrisies. He is extraordinarily unimaginable until you feel the impartation of His Spirit. He is described through the words of the Bible, yet the definition cannot be logically assessed so easily. He demands that we give Him our attention because He knows that we need Him.He has revealed Himself in part to many of us. We quite possibly could not handle the full revelation. Even as Christians, our fallible human nature seeks to rebuild as if God were un necessary. Once we met Him, we knew that this was a lie. Some call Him our crutch. We see Him as our sustaining anchor. Hangdawg speaks of the abstract, so I would like you to imagine this anchor as keeping us grounded in a reality that can appear illogical to some observers and totally logical to others. Why we all cannot agree is not for me to judge or speculate upon...but be patient! Leave open the possibility and make no determinations that you cannot validate 100% in your mind and heart.Does this help?This message has been edited by Phatboy, 06-09-2005 02:06 AM

Sidelined:As I reread my original post, I am now going to address your question as well as summerize my view in respect to everyone else in this topic.
You say to Robinrohan, I am concerned with the actual GOD that is the core of all these POV's. This sounds as if you are asking IF it is possible that God be an absolute? For Christians, Jesus Christ is fairly unanimous as the path to knowing God. Even if Catholics and Protestants disagree on a variety of things, they DO agree on the issues of the divinity of Jesus Christ. Jesus is a knowable entity, in my experience. If we bring in the "God" concept of other beliefs, than Jesus is no longer the common denominator.Lets set up a mock experiment. Take a room full of people who all have different religions. Observe these people in action and interview them to see what they profess and if it lines up with their actions. Included in this room would be atheists with a belief in life, love, and human potential. Could the consensus of a universal truth EVER be arrived at among these people?In essence, the answer that I believe would be that there would be a common "spirit" and an uncommon one. Agreement does not automatically equal truth. Deep within our individual conscience, acknowledgement is even more powerful than agreement. Is our first duty to acknowledge the spirit of truth or is our first duty to accept the spirit of agreement?In other words, I would argue that God may be disagreeable to everybody. This weeds out the sincere from the insincere. Hangdawgs definition of "real faith" would be an acknowledgement of relationship with God. A room full of people with "real faith" would not necessairly be in 100% agreement. The issue is the nature of faith. Some people have more faith in airplanes than others do. Having faith in the messanger is also to be considered. Many people who have heard Billy Graham preach may believe in God because Billy believes so adamantly. Jesus is being precise about the source of belief: The One who sent Me.This still begs the question for those who do not consider Jesus as the truth.Many Jews do not consider Jesus as Messiah because He did not fullfill A, B, C, and D.
Do they believe in the scriptures more than the claims of the person? (Yes)Counterpoint: Many people believed that Jimmy Swaggart was a man of God and when he was shown to be a false prophet, many lost their faith. They could not see God beyond Jimmy. The words of Jesus were clear. Even IF a person did not believe in Jesus as God, if a person received Jesus as truth, they would see the God behind Jesus....right? Gen 3:5"For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." contrasted with: John 14:28"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.Rather than seeking agreement with zyncod, I am affirming and acknowledging that God is greater than I am.In other words, human possibilitiespurpledawn writes:

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That's the problem, mankind CAN imagine God. Mankind created the concept of God. God came from mankind's imagination.

In the context of that time and place, no conflict. People saw Jesus do miraculous things. They knew of people who had been healed...perhaps themselves.I know that this is slightly off topic, but either we engage the Spirit..our faith, or as you say we enghage our minds...which is faith in human wisdom. You and I see diametric opposites in the faith dept. And all that I am pointing out to you is that you are diametrically opposed to the Biblical argument of Jesus Himself who said: You have a good empirically driven mind, old chap. I will not conclude that you are wrong because of it. Many of our most useful scientific inventions have come about due to skepticism.Additionally, you and I do not see eye to eye on the Bible. Even assuming it to be a fictional book with a story contained within does not take away from the message which the book says.
Time and time again, Jesus confronted the religious leaders of that day and informed them that if they wanted to relate to God, it was through knowing Jesus Himself that they would be able to do so.Now that we have the orthodox Christian belief and concept of God settled, lets assume that you and I approach the topic from the Jewish standpoint in which Jesus was a lunatic fringe element.(as an aside, I do not go with this belief system not because of how I was raised so much as because it does not "feel" right to me. To ask me "what" God is leads my mind to Jesus. Not as an idol but as a doorway. )So we are back to "what". Nevermind "who"! For some people, who is themselves. Some people believe that God is a necessary construction contained within the human mind. And if Jesus is eliminated as the central figure, you can understand Handdawgs attempt at humor when he said that God was made out of solid gold!
Paul addressed this issue in the book of Acts. The Old Testament concurs with Paul. SO it seems that engaging the grey matter would not involve acknowledging human intellect as the supreme arbitrator.

Beautiful! To comment any further is unnecessary. Great! That rules out pantheism! You may be on to something with this Eastern philosophy! So whats up with being vs doing? Allowing? What a beautiful life when we allow instead of plan or pretend! Again, no further comment is necessary! How deeply have you taken to heart what you have studied, Ifen? This message has been edited by Phatboy, 06-13-2005 03:58 AM

And yet why does modern man...who knows better...still believe in God?Perhaps because the meaning of life is not found in a microscope or a telescope.

Dawg, I checked this out.SIDELINED-----I say, OLD CHAP! How has our discourse, particularly with Ifen, jived with your question as to WHAT God is?Hangdawg, are you on vacation from school this summer? You seem to have a bit of time for theological discourse! What--No Job??

You have a point concerning belief being a relative concept. I do not agree only because I have heard so many good preachers that have a spark about them that mere positive thinking seminars and/or sci-fi fantasy gods just can't duplicate.Benny Hinn is definitely not the best that organized media evangelism has to offer. Most of the best preachers that I have heard are on the radio (or the internet) Here are three of the best: Pastor Alistair Begg and his scottish accent provide an entertaining sermon that is not just showy. Begg argues with passion. A true apologist. Chuck Swindoll is an old timer with a great attitude. Even for the non-believer, Swindoll has good philosophical advice. Pastor Raul Ries is a great example of a "spirit-led" preacher. He knows his Bible and uses it to frame his sermon philosophy. You may not agree that the Bible is inspired but if you listen to Pastor Raul you will see how many Christian literalists think and why the Bible is so important to them.

God COULD use Benny Hinn as a healer, much as many believe He also used Oral Roberts. Technically, however, such cases only mean that a persons Faith has made them well.I suppose that I should not be so judgemental towards Mr. Hinn, and I will admit that I am only judging him based on what I have read.God used a Donkey to talk to and restrain the madness of a prophet.I believe that any prayer can lead to healing, in Gods providence.I would be more inclined to pray for wisdom to the professional Doctors and care providers who help many many patients.Listen to the preachers in my link. These are some of the better ones that are out there. THAT was my main point.This message has been edited by Phatboy, 06-15-2005 11:56 AM