Is there such thing as destiny

I personally find it hard to believe in destiny. I struggle with this because it seems that
each event is random. Anything I plan or want usually doesn't happen the way I wanted,
even if my skills would fit nicely to the task.Ofcourse, believers haven't ever given me answers other than to believe, etc, blah, blah.
(Notice how it's my fault as I wasn't believing enough :rolleyesIf God made you and I with specific skills or talents, surely there would be some sort of destiny to
go along with.Perhaps you have a clear destiny but you have created it yourself, simply because you're good at that.What do you think?1. Is there a clear destiny in your life?2. Is that destiny based on your decisions and action, or do you think it is God?If you think it is God, I'd like to see good reasons as to why you conclude this.(I feel believers owe me a good answer for once, and I'd like to hear from them). I'd like to know what kind of destiny a starving person is supposed to have, having been born starving, lived starving and died starving.This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 01-27-2006 03:19 PM

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

No. The direction of my life has resulted from my own decisions, although these were undoubtedly influenced by circumtances and by my upbringing.As I look back, I can see how my life has been very different from what I would have predicted at various moments of decision in the past. A little goof there, Mike. Your question 2 was not a yes/no question.

Thanks. (will edit)bump.

Do I believe in destiny?Nope.

but like prophecy, it can only be determined after the fact.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I don't believe I have a destiny. I have a goal in live that I am working at acheiving. SOme of what I have wanted to acheive, I am mangaing to. Others , not so.

Hi Mike, haven't seen you around here in a while. Absolutely. Its all God. 1) Phillipians 2:13 For it is God who is producing in you both the desire and the ability to do what pleases him.
2) If God exists, it makes the most logical sense.
3) I've seen God work in my life. That's not a good reason for you (post-hoc, confirmation bias, I know), but its a good one for me.I'm going to try e-mailing you something about this. Many events are random yes... but are they also unintended? Randomness is the curse. Jesus bore the curse. If you trust in him, you're no longer under the curse, and things start to happen to you that aren't random (miracles). You're both right. The answer is to believe. But Ephesians 2:8 says even faith is a gift from God. So just know that you are a lump of clay in God's hands, and humble yourself before him, and ask him to give you faith. He gives to everyone who asks without finding fault. That was that person's destiny. Some may be destined to live richly in fancy houses with pot bellies and fast cars. According to Jesus, which one is better off? You could just as easily have been born into such a life. Do you deserve better? Nope. Why weren't you born into such a life? Grace.

Hi Dawg. Thanks for the email. Will read when can. Yet I think you're right that I could have randomly been poorer. Will a starving kid with a talent be that way by design? Wha if he didn't get to use the talent because he died? What justifies some evil selfish-type guy getting a fast car while some decent selfless and nice person dies of starvation?Doesn't this suggest that it doesn't matter what you get, to God?I admitt your post is smarter than the usual believer's argument, imho. Yet it almost seems that heaven is a very incompetent office, when looking at all those destined-to-be-born-in misery"ists".---Forgive my short post, I am in a rush, it's not POTm.This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 01-29-2006 07:33 PM

I have not seen any evidence of this, but often, something will happen that leads me to think there is some grand purpose behind it, but could be my interpretation of the event after the fact. One reason that I cannot believe totally in destiny is what about the horrible that has happened to innocent people?
For example, a child in some way was destined to be molested? I cannot subscribe to that. Not believing in destiny, I would have to say my situation is based on my decisions and nothing more (maybe some fomr of bad luck), and no, I do not believe it is God. Exactly.

Hi Hal, glad to see you're sticking around at EvC. I like you very much. (probably because you wish for magic and fantasy, and God to be true, like me ) This is an excellent point! This is exactly what I'm talking about.Rather than believers explaining this away, it would be better to hear an actual good explanation.It seems to me that if God is in charge of events, then he either has let these bad things happen with an intent to deal with the perpetrator at a later date. (But this still means God sits back and watches the child suffering in pain) OR, God isn't capable of stopping anything bad.Either way, assuming God exists, or argument's sake, it strikes me that both positions are incredulous.I shall await the believers' answers.This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 01-30-2006 11:25 AM

Hi, Mike--mind if an agnostic slips in a few thoughts?If there is free will, there cannot be destiny. I don't see any wriggle room here, though some Jesuitical or Rabbinical hair-splitters may assert some.As to the question of the slaughter of the innocents...It seems that believers generally respond to this with some variation of the doctrine of the necessity of free will: God cannot both allow us free will and prevent atrocities by those who freely will evil. This, of course, poses problems for any notions of predestination and omnipotence.My perspective also stands on the notion of necessity but at a different angle.When I consider the many difficulties of reconciling a belief in a just and loving God with a clear-eyed view of the world as it is, I conclude that reconciliation can only work if we assume it could not have been done otherwise.Thus, I am left with a less than omnipotent God: if a just and loving God could have done without all the human (and creature) suffering Her creation entailed, surely She would have.This is one reason my agnosticism does not collapse into pure atheism, i.e., holding on to my skepticism about the accuracy of anyone's assertions about the nature of God.Every sort of god imaginable has been posited, all with the claimed authority of revelation, but, in a nutshell:"Two men say they're Jesus:
One of them must be wrong."
--(Dire Straits, "Industrial Disease")I also view deist evolution and "nature red in tooth and claw" from this perspective: only necessity can reconcile a just and loving Creator and this creation.From my POV, if God exists, She did what She could, giving birth to the universe so that life and consciousness could arise.The rest is up to us.

Is there such thing as destiny?
Yes, yes there is. If a part of the universe acts on another, the second will react based on the first action, possibly acting on something else. The same goes for us, based on how we are raised we will act specific ways to different situations. Random is just a word for saying: I don't know all the variables involved in what happened.
thats what I believe

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the simplest organisms are the most likely to survive. stupid people are survivors

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It seems to me that if God is in charge of events, then he either has let these bad things happen with an intent to deal with the perpetrator at a later date. (But this still means God sits back and watches the child suffering in pain) OR, God isn't capable of stopping anything bad.

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Either way, assuming God exists, or argument's sake, it strikes me that both positions are incredulous.

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I shall await the believers' answers.

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Time is really annoying. first of all its really hard to talk about God with our perception. But anyway, your simple answer is he sits back and watches the child suffer. But he gave us free will, and time to exersize it in. If he did step in he wouldn't be God because he always keeps his promises.This message has been edited by dorkfrommarn, 01-31-2006 06:18 AM

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the simplest organisms are the most likely to survive. stupid people are survivors

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Usually, in a well-conducted debate, speakers are either emotionally uncommitted or can preserve sufficient detachment to maintain a coolly academic approach.-- Encylopedia Brittanica, on debate

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