Why must we believe *before* we die?

Sick.A God that operates in this fashion could reveal itself all it wanted, and I would neither love it nor worship it.I would rather burn in hell....foreverDisgusting.

What will you do in Heaven?

I appreciate the distinction, jar.The gulf between the claim of a loving God and a God that consigns living souls to eternal torment is immense...unbridgable.The smugness of those who claim to be on the safe side of that divide drives me to distraction; the notion that God is a torturer opens the door to justifying some of humankind's worst tendencies. Burning at the stake, the torments of the Inquisition, the slaughter of "infidels"...all spring from the gates of Hell.

Peace. Love. Joy. Kindness. Freedom from attachment to passing sorrows.You show surprising ignorance for someone claiming to have been a Seeker who explored everything from Eastern mysticism to the occult.The ocean could not exist without drops of water.What will you do in Heaven, Faith?

Crashfrog, if you wind up Downtown, call me.

[crooked grin]
Don't worry about me, iano. I'll be alright.
[/crooked grin]

Yes, I am following the discussion closely. I never join a thread without reading every prior post.Your inability to imagine the Buddhist desire to "lose...identity" is culturally determined, as is your Calvinism, as is your incredulity about some scientific theories.According to the Buddha, your "identity" is an illusion. The power to change or destroy that identity--e.g., by tyrants and cults--has existed here on earth for millennia.What do you believe is the relationship between your "identity" and your "soul"? Are they one and the same? "Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens."

Yeah, I hear even Pascal got sent Down for gambling.

True, but universal--as applicable to you as to me. I do not think you can advance an argument that I cannot follow--I may disagree, or find the argument weak, invalid, or offensive, but I can follow it. Years of life and study in East Asia, including residence in a Buddhist monastery and marriage to a Buddhist, as well as growing up in the Bible Belt of the U.S. while attending Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, and evangelical services; minors in philosophy, East Asian studies, and anthropology while working toward a graduate degree in creative writing (poetry) later in life; a life-time of observing and considering the people around me... That is one possibility. The Buddha largely refused to address the question of an after-life, preferring to address questions of right-living. Dissolution of the self is union with the ground of Being. Frankly, that sounds like a cop-out in the face of a difficult question. Will you be the Faith of 33 Orchard St. in Heaven? Will you miss your cat? Your earlier reply sounded as though the experience of Heaven would be like dissolving in a sea of love where such identity is largely irrelevant.I am attempting to learn how to converse with you, Faith: some of your posts have sparked a level of anger that I have not felt since under hostile fire more than 30 years ago. It is hard, and I am attempting not to turn away from the difficult.Your beliefs are anathema to me, and I am swimming against the tide of my own inclinations in order to increase my understanding. Perhaps you are doing the same.But perhaps not: if you prefer not to interact with me on this forum, I will respect your wishes.This message has been edited by Omnivorous, 09-30-2005 04:16 PM

Well said, Ben. Very Zen.

My favorite Milton quote:"O Hell!"

"Hostile fire" is the opposite of "friendly fire"--i.e., other folks shooting at you with deadly intent. That truly ticked me off, those many years ago.I was comparing my reaction to your posts to my reaction to combat, not holding you responsible for the latter.Unless you used to run around the jungle in black pajamas?

True, I won't be "shooting at you" anymore, Faith. If I can't be civil, I'll be silent.