Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 66 (9164 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,475 Year: 3,732/9,624 Month: 603/974 Week: 216/276 Day: 56/34 Hour: 2/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Rationalising The Irrational - Hardcore Theists Apply Within
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4040
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.2


Message 15 of 277 (497320)
02-03-2009 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by ICANT
02-03-2009 1:16 PM


Re: 2-0 To The "Internals"
Without a belief in God or a desire to know God there would never be enough empirical evidence to convince anyone.
If this is true, then belief in God depends on wholly subjective reasoning. It cannot ever be described as objective. You're acknowledging that the evidence that supports the existence of God requires a pre-existing belief that God exists - that the reasoning behind faith requires putting the conclusion before the evidence and interpreting the evidence in such a way that it supports the pre-existing conclusion.
I don't think I've ever seen a Christian actually admit that before.
This then raises the question, however, of why one should believe in God at all.
I don't have to believe that the sky is blue before examining the evidence to conclude that the sky is, in fact blue. I can go outside and see for myself, and following the evidence with no pre-existing bias will cause me to conclude that the sky is blue. It's objective, independent of my pre-existing bias or belief.
If the evidence for God is wholly subjective, meaning there is no evidence that will lead me to conclude that God exists unless I actively make a biased interpretation of the evidence by assuming that the evidence supports the existence of God before beginning, then there really isn't any reason to believe in God at all.
After all, I can just as easily claim that dragons exist, but that the evidence in dinosaur bones only supports the existence of dragons if you interpret that evidence through the lens of a pre-existing belief in dragons.
It's circular reasoning - your conclusion is contained in your premise:
"Assuming that God exists, how does this evidence support the existence of God?"
It's amazing to me that this blatantly obvious break in logic is so widely held.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by ICANT, posted 02-03-2009 1:16 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by ICANT, posted 02-04-2009 3:34 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4040
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.2


Message 28 of 277 (497359)
02-03-2009 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Phat
02-03-2009 3:56 PM


Re: Is God a meteor?
We have more senses than mere sight. We have touch, sound, hearing, and taste...as well as the elusive and undefineable sixth sense.
If you can't even define this "sixth sense," how can you say it exists? What is it? What are its properties? What does it detect?
If you can't answer those basic questions, I'd have to say you're full of hot air.
I have never seen God, but I have seen things that lead me to confirm my belief in God. Call it confirmation bias....I would prefer to take a stand and believe in something rather than forever question, doubt, and attempt to remain objective.
Your choice. Everybody's entitled to their beliefs.
The objective rat never finds the end of the maze as long as they have not explored all possible routes.
...this statwement doesn't make sense. You can find the end of a maze without exploring every path. I can think of very few times I've solved a maze puzzle and have actually explored every path - in fact, I can't seem to recall even one.
Further, how would you propose that a "subjective rat" would find the exit? Since subjective belief requires no objective evidence and can even work in spite of contradictory evidence, I would speculate that a "subjective rat" would be far less likely to ever find the exit to a maze than an "objective rat."
But even taking your analogy, have you explored all paths, Phat? Have you explored every supernatural belief system? How do you know which one accurately represents reality? If you cannot differentiate one from any of the others, how do you know that any supernatural belief system accurately represents reality?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Phat, posted 02-03-2009 3:56 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024