Unethical practices in Evangelism. What is the value of the conversions?

And your point is? Moishe Rosen grew up in a nominally Jewish family and became a believer in Christ in his early twenties. He then became a missionary to the Jews and was also ordained as a minister, but never pastored a congregation. It was simply training for his work as an evangelist. Then he started Jews for Jesus as his life's work. I read a number of his books. Why the sinister tone about the Southern Baptists? Apparently Jews for Jesus is popular with the SBs. More power to them. They are a very big denomination. However, I've been in a number of churches, none of them Southern Baptist, which hosted Jews for Jesus speakers and performers and gave them support. Many people support them as part of their own private giving. I've heard this complaint from many Jews and really I'm not sure I like any method that isn't completely up front about the Christian character of a group or a teacher. The idea of course is that they hope to get a friendly ear for the gospel which otherwise Jews are prejudiced against since birth and just shut out completely. However, the street evangelists for JfJ are quite up front. Their tracts are quite up front. There is no doubt about the mission of a Jews for Jesus city office.I have some objections to some facets of Jews for Jesus myself, but mostly they are overridden by the fact that they do a very necessary work of taking the gospel to the Jews. No organization or church is perfect and their errors are quite forgiveable it seems to me. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Well you put your finger on my own objection not only to Jews for Jesus but to most Messianic Jewish ministries -- their refusal to give up their Jewish identity and present themselves as simply Christians. The "all their lives" part is false for most though, as most I'm aware of are converts who grew up Jewish, not Christian at all but usually anti-Christian.There are many Messianic Jewish churches and organizations now and they vary in the importance they ascribe to their Jewish identify, but some go so far as to have services conducted on Saturday rather than Sunday, by a "rabbi" in traditional garb, the shawl with tassels, with a real Torah scroll which is passed around to be kissed, and readings and recitations in Hebrew. The message is otherwise completely Christian.I think this emphasis on Jewish identity is very wrong if understandable up to a point. But I would NOT say it is insincere. They sincerely believe that they are completely Jewish in their acceptance of Yeshua the Messiah, hence the catch-phrase "completed Jew" which is offensive to many traditional Jews.So although I believe they are wrong from a CHRISTIAN point of view, I would never say they are lying in any sense at all. To what extent they make false converts I can't possibly know. There are false converts in all the churches.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Just in point of fact he was NOT a minister for a Christian Church ever. I already said that. Not that it matters much in this context, but you have your facts wrong here. He was ordained but never practiced as a minister. Many go through ordination who never pastor churches.Moishe Rosen - WikipediaIn any case he continued to consider himself a Jew quite honestly. You may not, but he does. I've heard this bizarre canard many times too. Where on earth do you get this idea? I don't know the statistics but Jews for Jesus is for Jews and its members are mostly Jews by heritage. This is just slander. Most Jews who believe in Christ consider themselves Jews because of their ethnicity and because they consider the New Testament to be a very Jewish book. You are imposing your own definition on them and insisting they think the way you do.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I KNOW he got ordained, I said that OVER AND OVER. But NOWHERE have I seen that he pastored a congregation. Please show that he did or stop saying this. He simply worked as an evangelist. That's all I've ever read about him. Where did he pastor a church? There is no deception except in your imagination. I ALREADY SAID THREE TIMES ALREADY THAT HE GOT ORDAINED. That does NOT mean he pastored a CHURCH. He got ordained to ministry in a Baptist church but did not actually ever pastor a church. Ordination means he's QUALIFIED to pastor a church, but it doesn't mean he actually did so. He got the training as support for his evangelism to the Jews. I'm trying to teach you something. Being ordained as a Baptist just means that's where he got his training. It does not mean he ever was the pastor of a congregation.He also considers himself Jewish although he believes in Jesus. You apparently, like many ethnic and religious Jews, think that's wrong, but every ethnically Jewish person I've known who came to believe as a Christian still thinks of himself or herself as Jewish. Jews for Jesus, like many other Jewish-Christian ministries, is very big on showing the Jewish and Old Testament meanings fulfilled in Christ, such as all the Jewish holidays. They are very attached to their Jewish heritage. I also think they overdo this, but there is NO deception involved in it. You'll have to come up with a better source for the membership of Jews for Jesus than your own limited experience.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

One more time to get this clearer.Most Jewish Christian or Messianic Jewish groups continue to have the ingrained distrust most Jews have of anything "Christian," which they regard as "Gentile," meaning inherently anti-Jewish. They don't like calling themselves Christians for this reason and they don't like even using the English name "Jesus" for this reason, preferring the Hebrew sound of "Yeshua."This ought to be understandable to anyone I would think, considering their history of persecution. On the other hand when it goes to extreme lengths it is also just wrong, and offensive to the Christian Church, besides also putting off ethnic and religious Jews. So the more they can grow out of this ethnic attachment of theirs, the better for all concerned.BUT THERE IS NO DECEPTION INVOLVED IN THIS. They regard Yeshua as their very own Jewish Messiah, and this is how they are best able to appreciate Him. Actually it's odd that you criticize Jews for Jesus for this, because they are the LEAST offensive in this regard of all the many many Messianic Jewish ministries that are out there now.It is academic how many members of Jews for Jesus or any other Jewish Christian organization are ethnic Jews, and academic whether any leader or member of these groups has particular Bible or theological training as Moishe Rosen does. It's not important. They would be ethnically Jewish Christians who are attached to their Jewish heritage no matter what level of theological training or affiliation with nonJewish Christians they have.I simply believe you to be factually wrong when you insist that Rosen functioned as a minister in a church, and ask you to prove this. And please prove also your contention that most members of JfJ are not ethnically Jewish. I really don't know, but I think you are just making it all up because you have this false idea about the whole thing.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

The whole thing is a movement BY Jews FOR Jews. Many nonJewish Christians back the movement, but they did not start the movement, and there are many other Christians, including some formerly Jewish Christians, who are opposed to the insistence on Jewish identity within the Messianic movement. But within that movement it is a Jewish cause, and they think of themselves as Jews, and they insist on holding on to their Jewish identity. It's a Jewish thing, Ramoss, their choice, not anybody else's.

I guess I have no choice but to be proud of being misunderstood and in a sense even persecuted (slander is a form of persecution) for defending the Jewish believers in the Messiah. Thank you.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.