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Author Topic:   Relativity in Creationism
pam-powers
Junior Member (Idle past 5877 days)
Posts: 9
Joined: 02-17-2008


Message 1 of 31 (456383)
02-17-2008 4:53 PM


A radical new view of Creationism states it is not evolution but the dimensions of this
universe (relativity, quantum mechanics) that differentiate it from the creation of Genesis.
It is man's relation to God or lack thereof that determines the dimensions of the world
in which he lives. The absolute relation of man to God was broken through sin and became
a relative relation to the world around him. This relativity is the same concept that
Einstein himself dealt with. Relativity makes it necessary that beings evolve in relation
to the world around them and not to an absolute God. This universe evolved out of the
original creation when our relation to God was no longer an absolute.

Replies to this message:
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 Message 4 by AZPaul3, posted 02-18-2008 11:52 AM pam-powers has replied
 Message 6 by Larni, posted 02-18-2008 5:09 PM pam-powers has not replied
 Message 10 by Taz, posted 02-20-2008 12:45 PM pam-powers has replied
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Admin
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Message 2 of 31 (456470)
02-18-2008 8:59 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 1593 days)
Posts: 1199
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 3 of 31 (456501)
02-18-2008 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by pam-powers
02-17-2008 4:53 PM


interesting.
all things came from the same start. ie: T=0
because all things came from the same initial start, all things are relative to the foundation of which it was built.
but we sitting here and looking up see it from not the initial point of view, but from this point of view, and things appear external, but all things are internal to that which it came from.
man being external by the choice to deny him is evident in the denial itself.
interesting read. thanks.

keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 4 of 31 (456502)
02-18-2008 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by pam-powers
02-17-2008 4:53 PM


Is there some source for this new idea that you can share, please?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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pam-powers
Junior Member (Idle past 5877 days)
Posts: 9
Joined: 02-17-2008


Message 5 of 31 (456515)
02-18-2008 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by AZPaul3
02-18-2008 11:52 AM


Actually it comes out of Soren Kierkegaard's declaration that the self is a relation. Genesis
states that God formed man out of dust from the ground, yet Adam existed in God's
image. It was his relation to God that gave him identity; when this relation was broken
through sin, Adam saw himself in terms of the "man of dust", not in terms of his relation
to God.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 6 of 31 (456534)
02-18-2008 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by pam-powers
02-17-2008 4:53 PM


Hi Pam, welcome to the board.
I'm a little confused: I'm not sure exactly what it is that you are rying to say here.
Could you clarify your point please?

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 7 of 31 (456536)
02-18-2008 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by pam-powers
02-18-2008 2:08 PM


It was his relation to God that gave him identity; when this relation was broken through sin, Adam saw himself in terms of the "man of dust", not in terms of his relation to God.
And where is Einstein's Special Relativity in this?
How does Adam's view of himself change the dimensions of the universe in which we now live in a fundamental physical way?
How does this view cause Creationists to view Relativity and Quantum Mechanics, instead of Evolution, as what differentiates it from Genesis? And why would creationists want to "differentiate it from the creation of Genesis?"

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by pam-powers, posted 02-19-2008 1:41 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
pam-powers
Junior Member (Idle past 5877 days)
Posts: 9
Joined: 02-17-2008


Message 8 of 31 (456661)
02-19-2008 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by AZPaul3
02-18-2008 5:34 PM


reply
Creationists have to differentiate the creation of Genesis from today's universe in order
to show that evolution and probability did not originate with God but are outcomes of
man's sinful relations. Evolution is a result of relativity, the relative relations we have to
the world around us. Only the relation to God is absolute; if everything exists in relation
to an absolute God, you have one center - God. If each person establishes his or her own
relation to creation, you have countless centers; each human being is the center of his
own little world. He or she lives according to his or her own meanings, not God's meaning
or truth. This is relativity. Since man was created in God's image, it is man's relations to
the world around him that establishes its dimensions. The world changes according to
man's changing relations to it. Man and beast adapt to these changes - that's evolution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by AZPaul3, posted 02-18-2008 5:34 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 14 by Modulous, posted 02-21-2008 10:56 AM pam-powers has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 9 of 31 (456842)
02-20-2008 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by pam-powers
02-19-2008 1:41 PM


Relativity It Ain't.
Evolution is a result of relativity, the relative relations we have to the world around us.
The use of the word “relativity” as in the physics theory presented by Einstein is bogus here since this has nothing to do with his physics but only a gross misrepresentation of that theory.
Only the relation to God is absolute; if everything exists in relation to an absolute God, you have one center - God.
Statement of faith, but this is to be expected.
If each person establishes his or her own relation to creation, you have countless centers; each human being is the center of his own little world. He or she lives according to his or her own meanings, not God's meaning or truth.
Leave out equating “God’s meaning” to “truth” which is another statement of faith and I have no quibble with this.
This is relativity.
Not even close.
Since man was created in God's image, it is man's relations to the world around him that establishes its dimensions. The world changes according to man's changing relations to it. Man and beast adapt to these changes - that's evolution.
This makes no sense.
There is no underpinning of real physical theory to any of this and at best represents the illogical meanderings of religion once again attempting to find some justification for belief.
In other words it is a load of pop psycho-babble with both a religious twist and no relation to the reality of the human condition.
Edited by AZPaul3, : Re-word for clarity.
Edited by AZPaul3, : Dang typos. Someone has to do something about the existance of typos, like get rid of them. They serve no useful purpose in this universe.

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Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 10 of 31 (456861)
02-20-2008 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by pam-powers
02-17-2008 4:53 PM


Attention Silent H (aka Holmes)!
Content that should have never been posted "hidden" - Adminnemooseus
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : See above. Content "hidden".

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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pam-powers
Junior Member (Idle past 5877 days)
Posts: 9
Joined: 02-17-2008


Message 11 of 31 (456973)
02-21-2008 2:52 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Taz
02-20-2008 12:45 PM


Re: Attention Silent H (aka Holmes)!
You can label it what you will but if all you're going to do is call names, there's no
debating anything. I suggest you try reading Kiekegaard's 'Sickness Unto Death', first,
so you can have some idea of what you're debating. In all sincerity.
Edited by pam-powers, : Gave wrong book title.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Taz, posted 02-20-2008 12:45 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 12 of 31 (456975)
02-21-2008 2:59 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by pam-powers
02-21-2008 2:52 AM


Re: Attention Silent H (aka Holmes)!
You're not going to find any argument from my end. I've decided long ago never to debate with people who, either by choice or necessity, don't talk in a linear fashion.

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Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 13 of 31 (456976)
02-21-2008 3:05 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Taz
02-20-2008 12:45 PM


Taz - Be nice - Don't post content free attacks like this
Don't post messages like that (content now "hidden").
Don't reply to this message.
Adminnemooseus
Added by edit: I now note the subsequent message in this topic, and some of your other recent posts. You seem to be entering the "cranky zone". I don't like company in the "cranky zone". Be nice or you're headed for a time out.
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : See "added by edit" above.

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Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 14 of 31 (457009)
02-21-2008 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by pam-powers
02-19-2008 1:41 PM


do you mean relativism?
He or she lives according to his or her own meanings, not God's meaning
or truth. This is relativity.
I think you are using different words than everybody else. Relativity is most commonly used to mean this whereas what you are describing is more commonly known as Relativism. You also seem to be using relativity to mean what we would call relatedness. They have similar root meanings, but their specific meanings are quite different - and it might be an idea to use the different words to aid in discriminating between them.

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Replies to this message:
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pam-powers
Junior Member (Idle past 5877 days)
Posts: 9
Joined: 02-17-2008


Message 15 of 31 (457045)
02-21-2008 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Modulous
02-21-2008 10:56 AM


Re: do you mean relativism?
I'm not sure what you're talking about; maybe. We're trying to explain how the dimensions
of this universe - which are relativity and quantum mechanics - came about as a result
of the broken relation with God. Man's relation to God is central. The world Adam lived in
before he sinned existed in entirely different dimensions than the one today and these
dimensions were defined by his relation to God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Modulous, posted 02-21-2008 10:56 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 17 by Otto Tellick, posted 02-22-2008 2:39 AM pam-powers has replied

  
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