Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 80 (8960 total)
27 online now:
Coragyps, DrJones*, Minnemooseus (Adminnemooseus), nwr, ringo (5 members, 22 visitors)
Newest Member: Mikee
Post Volume: Total: 869,270 Year: 1,018/23,288 Month: 1,018/1,851 Week: 141/321 Day: 56/47 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Are You an Authoritarian?
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6953
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 51 of 181 (501934)
03-08-2009 5:50 PM


30 here
I guess a 30 is a raging atheist,liberal or something.

I was very sure of all my answers. I guess I just feel that the gold old days weren't really that good and I have no desire to have some pompous right winger try to take us back to them.

The thing that stands out to me is these questions seem to validate my fear that religious people think atheist like I have no morals. Then again they think anyone that believes or acts differently than they do has no morals.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6953
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 89 of 181 (568202)
07-04-2010 9:47 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by RAZD
07-04-2010 9:23 PM


My political box
Economic Left/Right: -7.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.54


This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by RAZD, posted 07-04-2010 9:23 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6953
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 116 of 181 (568652)
07-07-2010 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by Huntard
07-07-2010 1:27 PM


Re: Compare yourself to a composer!
I guess I am surprised Wagner was even on the chart.

One thing that would be important to point out is that these composers come from a different time. They come from a period and societies that were on the whole much more authoritarian and rightist.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Huntard, posted 07-07-2010 1:27 PM Huntard has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Huntard, posted 07-07-2010 1:35 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6953
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 121 of 181 (568663)
07-07-2010 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by nwr
07-07-2010 2:04 PM


Re: Compare yourself to a composer!
I love Stravinsky, but can't stand Wagner.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by nwr, posted 07-07-2010 2:04 PM nwr has acknowledged this reply

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6953
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 134 of 181 (614142)
05-02-2011 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 133 by Tram law
05-02-2011 10:40 AM


Re: new composite
I answered either Strongly Disagree or Strongly Agree only and with questions that can be answered in a clearly conservative fashion, I would mark Strongly Agree. Such as the question regarding whether the Christian Religion should be in taught in schools, I marked Strongly Agreed.

You seem to be making the assumption that conservative=authoritarian. The point of the exercise seems to be that they are not equal.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by Tram law, posted 05-02-2011 10:40 AM Tram law has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by Tram law, posted 05-02-2011 11:34 AM Theodoric has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6953
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 137 of 181 (614152)
05-02-2011 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by Tram law
05-02-2011 11:34 AM


Re: new composite
Tram law writes:

In one sense they are very authoritarian. But it all depends on how one defines authoritarian.

In partisan politics, of course, the claim will always be something akin to "the other party is the one who's Authoritarian and mine is not".

In regards to the test I think if you did the opposite you'd get a similar score on the other side of the graph.

But as for me, my own personal definition of Authoritarian, when it comes to politics, is that any party who wants to increase the size of government and increase it's powers over the citizens is an authoritarian party, regardless of the motivations behind it. I'm sure there are probably some weaknesses you can point out, but for the large part it pretty much bears out.

Such as when you consider the dictionary definition:

1. favoring complete obedience or subjection to authority as opposed to individual freedom: authoritarian principles; authoritarian attitudes.

2.
of or pertaining to a governmental or political system, principle, or practice in which individual freedom is held as completely subordinate to the power or authority of the state, centered either in one person or a small group that is not constitutionally accountable to the people.

3.
exercising complete or almost complete control over the will of another or of others: an authoritarian parent.

But for the most part, political tests like those shouldn't be trusted because they can always be manipulated.

So how does this rant address this?

Theodoric writes:

You seem to be making the assumption that conservative=authoritarian. The point of the exercise seems to be that they are not equal.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Tram law, posted 05-02-2011 11:34 AM Tram law has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by Tram law, posted 05-02-2011 11:53 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6953
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 140 of 181 (614156)
05-02-2011 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Tram law
05-02-2011 11:56 AM


Re: new composite
It's a test to see what your political leanings are. It is not accurate and only speaks of terms of right/left and libertarian and authoritarianism. It does not consider things like left and right have different meanings in other countries. It doesn't consider that Democrats can be different than liberals nor does it consider that Republicans can be different from conservatives. Nor does it consider the beliefs of other political parties either. At least as far as I know.

But it is not intended to do that.

That is like saying cholesterol testing does not measure PSA levels.

The purpose of this is to SIMPLY give your political leanings on a right/left, authoritarian/libertarian matrix. Is it perfect? Of course not. Can it be manipulated? Of course it can. By why would you want to? Why would a person want to cheat on a personality test, unless they wanted to lie to themselves?

Oh could a simple test give an accurate portrayal about the complexity of a persons political leanings. All we can hope for is some sort of amorphous dot on a matrix.

It doesn't consider that Democrats can be different than liberals nor does it consider that Republicans can be different from conservatives.

Does it say anything about Democrat/Republican at all?
No. That is not its purpose.

It doesn't consider that Democrats can be different than liberals nor does it consider that Republicans can be different from conservatives.

Again this is not the purpose of this little test.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Tram law, posted 05-02-2011 11:56 AM Tram law has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by Tram law, posted 05-02-2011 12:35 PM Theodoric has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6953
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 144 of 181 (614163)
05-02-2011 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by Tram law
05-02-2011 12:35 PM


Re: new composite
Your mistake is assuming that all of us are the same.

Please show where I have said or implied this. Are you lying about what I have said?

And yes it is the purpose of the test, to see your political leanings.

Exactly!! Based on a a left/right, authoritarian/libertarian matrix. No one realistically thinks this is going to be a highly accurate measure of anyone's total political beliefs.

I notice you used the word leanings. Your use of the word recognizes the purpose of the test. Maybe you don't know what "leanings" means.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Tram law, posted 05-02-2011 12:35 PM Tram law has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by Tram law, posted 05-02-2011 12:58 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6953
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 147 of 181 (614193)
05-02-2011 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by Tram law
05-02-2011 11:34 AM


Authoritarian/Conservative
Do you truly think these are equal?

You have heard of the Tea Party haven't you? Now I don't think the vast majority of Tea Partiers have a clue how they feel about anything other than their fear of the poor and brown people. But the semi-official line of the Tea Party is that they are conservative and libertarian. This doesn't seem possible in your world.

Have you heard of FDR? He was liberal but authoritarian. Richard Nixon was actually fairly liberal too, but very authoritarian.

You seem to want everything to fit into a box. This is one of those things that is not easily defined.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Tram law, posted 05-02-2011 11:34 AM Tram law has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by Tram law, posted 05-08-2011 11:54 AM Theodoric has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6953
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 149 of 181 (614907)
05-08-2011 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by Tram law
05-08-2011 11:54 AM


Authoritarian=Conservative? is the question
How about addressing the issue. You are claiming that conservatism and authoritarianism are equal. Care to defend that?

What is with he personal attacks?

Not to mention how easily you've defined the Tea party as racists when you really haven't read anything about them except what your fellow liberals say about them

So you know me personally? You know what I do or do not know? Weird?

And that's the difference between me and you. I don't pester you or other people just because they have different beliefs than other people.

You do realize that this is a debate site don't you? This is not a site to allow Tram Law to pontificate without him having to defend his arguments. If you don't like people calling you out on the crap you post, quit posting it. Or maybe you could address the issues people bring up with reasonable arguments and lay off the personal attacks. A thinker skin would help your posting a lot.

Latest tea party racist in news

Maybe you should Google Mark Williams. I can show you endless examples of racism in the Tea Party movement. How many examples of Tea Partiers disavowing the racism can you provide?


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Tram law, posted 05-08-2011 11:54 AM Tram law has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by Coyote, posted 05-08-2011 9:12 PM Theodoric has responded
 Message 152 by Buzsaw, posted 05-08-2011 10:04 PM Theodoric has responded
 Message 165 by Tram law, posted 05-09-2011 11:03 AM Theodoric has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6953
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 157 of 181 (614919)
05-08-2011 11:00 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by Coyote
05-08-2011 9:12 PM


Re: Authoritarian=Conservative? is the question
So nothing to add to the topic? Just right wing propaganda and a lame comment?

Maybe you could read the post and actually provide an argument to counter my argument.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Coyote, posted 05-08-2011 9:12 PM Coyote has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6953
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 158 of 181 (614921)
05-08-2011 11:06 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by Buzsaw
05-08-2011 10:04 PM


Re: Authoritarian=Conservative? is the question
Most who disavow racism show it by their actions rather than their words. Their actions are not racist by and large.

Consorting with and allowing racists in your midst speaks volumes. So I gather you have no examples to show of Tea Partiers disavowing racism.

On the other hand, it is liberal blacks like our president, Jesse Jackson, the Black Panthers, Nation of Islam, preacher Jeremiah Wright, the Southern Democrats like Senator Byrd, the Confederate South way back when: by and large, the leftist Democratic Party.

Please show examples.

Oh and are you equating our president with the Black Panthers (which has been disbanded since 1982)and the Nation of Islam?

Do you think Strom Thurmond was racist?


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Buzsaw, posted 05-08-2011 10:04 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by Buzsaw, posted 05-09-2011 12:08 AM Theodoric has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6953
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 161 of 181 (614930)
05-09-2011 8:35 AM
Reply to: Message 160 by Buzsaw
05-09-2011 12:08 AM


Re: Authoritarian=Conservative? is the question
So were the answers yes?

You do know that the Republican party of Lincoln has drastically changed to become the GOP of today. We are not discussing the Republican Party of 1864 we are discussing the present party. Even in 1860's very few in the Republican Party advocated civil rights for blacks, it was mainly an economic issue for them. You might want to do some research on the migration of the dixiecrats to the Republican Party in the 60-70's following the passage of civil rights legislation.

Also, you might want to research the civil rights acts of 1960 and who drove them through. Reaching back a little further you might want to learn about the 1948 Democratic Convention and a speech by a man named Hubert Humphrey. I am not providing any links, because it is important for people to work a little in order to overcome their ignorance.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by Buzsaw, posted 05-09-2011 12:08 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6953
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 163 of 181 (614936)
05-09-2011 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 160 by Buzsaw
05-09-2011 12:08 AM


Re: Authoritarian=Conservative? is the question
Our president who chose to identify with blacks though he was only half black

The scary thing is that you have no idea how racist this comment is.
Would it have been racist for him to identify with whites because he is only 1/2 white?
Are we to require genetic tests to determine what group we are supposed to identify with? I have relatives with a gamut of percentages of white/black. How do we determine who they are supposed to identify with.

Do you listen to Glenn Beck? IS everyone that listens to him a racist?

Buz your ignorance, racism and stupidity is showing.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by Buzsaw, posted 05-09-2011 12:08 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by Tram law, posted 05-09-2011 11:07 AM Theodoric has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6953
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 168 of 181 (614951)
05-09-2011 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 165 by Tram law
05-09-2011 11:03 AM


Re: Authoritarian=Conservative? is the question
Oh this is going to be fun.

Really, really you should lay off the personal attacks and grow a thicker hide. Whining will get you no where.

Lets go back to the authoritarian=conservative issue.

TL writes:

No, I wasn't and didn't, it was you who was making the claim that I was making the claim.


You do know we can look at all previous posts don't you?

TL writes:

I decided to mess with this a little. I decided to use the test to see the highest Authoritarian score I could get. I answered either Strongly Disagree or Strongly Agree only and with questions that can be answered in a clearly conservative fashion, I would mark Strongly Agree. Such as the question regarding whether the Christian Religion should be in taught in schools, I marked Strongly Agreed.

So, in messing with things I got this score:

Economic Left/Right: 6.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 8.15

However, I was doing this to see what it would take to see how high of an Authoritarian score I could get.


Message 133
Clearly you thought if you answered questions in a conservative manner you would get a higher authoritarian score. That is exactly what you are saying here. Would you like to spin this to mean something else?


So you know me personally? You know what I do or do not know? Weird?

You said they were all afraid of brown people. That's calling them racist.


Lets look at the complete conversation on this one. Yes I am calling them racist but that isn't what my comment was referring to. So you are either a liar or have comprehension issues. This what my comment was in relation to. I even posted it so you there would be no confusion.
TL writes:

Not to mention how easily you've defined the Tea party as racists when you really haven't read anything about them except what your fellow liberals say about them


You are saying I know only what other liberals say. Now you cannot defend that so you claim I am backing off calling the teapartiers racists. You really are not a very honest debater.

TL writes:

It is you who are pontificating and trying to define things.


I welcome responses to my posts. I want people to show me where my thinking is wrong. But I am going to defend my viewpoints very aggressively. Also, I am going to respond with evidence and only get into the gutter with personal attacks when they are first hurled at me. Then I wont hold back at all. Oh yeah you might want to look up the meaning of the word pontificate. Not sure you know what it means.

TL writes:

I am not posting crap. These are things I believe.


Then defend these 'believes". One important thing to remember is that the facts are not going to alter themselves to fit your beliefs.

TL writes:

The fact of the matter is it is you who are generalizing and I will simply not read websites like that who have to play the race card for the lemmings who can't think for themselves.


So you are unwilling to consider anything that does not fit your existing belief set. The major news outlets are all playing the "race card"? What is this "race card" of which you speak? Care to define it?

TL writes:

Why don't you actually read their website and see their beliefs?


So you think this one Tea Party website speaks for all the tea partiers? You do know there is not one umbrella org don't you. Also, let me clarify I do not think everyone in the movement is racist, but racism permeates the movement and very little has been done to control it or distance the tea party movement form the racist movement in this country. How about giving me those links showing where people inside the movement have stood up to control or fight the racists in there midst. Find any yet?

Oh and you have heard of propaganda haven't you. A little history lesson for you. Research the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. What do you think their website is going to say about them?

TL writes:

This is a very common tactic among you liberals. And you guys collectively judge and entire group of people.


Laughable. I guess you're just showing you have nothing. You do realize that you just did what you accused me of. Since you probably won't be able to figure that out, maybe someone else can explain it to you.

Such as calling Arizona racists for the anti-illegal immigration laws.

The anti-immigration laws are racist. Maybe you should read them and know what they entail before you opine on them. Does this make all Arizonians racist? Of course not, but it means that there is a strong racist element in elected positions in Arizona. Do you think these laws are aimed at the illegal Irish?

TL writes:

I am not an intellectual elitist.


Elitist? What the hell is that crap?(this is the crap I mentioned you post) What on earth would make you call me an elitist? Maybe you need to define what you mean by that?
TL writes:

And where were people like you when during the primaries Hillary's camp was constantly playing the race card against Obama?


Again you know not of which you speak. I spoke out very vigorously against the Hillary campaign. The local and state dem parties here got a very strong earful and the campaign got calls, letters and emails from me.

What have you done to protest racism?


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by Tram law, posted 05-09-2011 11:03 AM Tram law has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by NoNukes, posted 05-09-2011 10:00 PM Theodoric has responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2020