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Author Topic:   The C.C.O.I. (Christian Cult Of Ignorance) and Willful Ignorance
Mal
Junior Member (Idle past 1555 days)
Posts: 15
From: Stockholm
Joined: 07-09-2015


Message 608 of 675 (762548)
07-13-2015 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 586 by Faith
07-09-2015 3:45 PM


Re: Jesus is alive
Hi Faith

I find this quote very interesting.

First prerequisite is to believe the Bible is God's word and you've missed it, probably terminally.

Does this not seem to be the opposite of what should be true?

I think if you believe the Bible is God's word BEFORE you read it, then you will believe that everything in it is true, even if the evidence is much against it.

If I believed that the Qur'an was the word of God ( I do not) before I read it, then wouldn't I have the same thought that it was all true?

It does make me think that the society that people grow up in decides which book is God's word.

Do you think you would believe that the Bible is the word of God if you grew up in a Muslim or Sikh society?

Thank you

Mal x


This message is a reply to:
 Message 586 by Faith, posted 07-09-2015 3:45 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 610 by Faith, posted 07-13-2015 11:00 AM Mal has responded

  
Mal
Junior Member (Idle past 1555 days)
Posts: 15
From: Stockholm
Joined: 07-09-2015


(1)
Message 609 of 675 (762549)
07-13-2015 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 587 by jar
07-09-2015 3:59 PM


Re: Jesus is alive
Hi Jar

I think i might have seen a contradiction in your message.

I apologise if i am incorrect.

You say:

Not lies Faith (although that's also likely) but errors, falsehoods, contradictions and irrelevancies. (in the Bible)

And

Faith, unlike "Biblical Christians" many of us actually read what is written and believe that the Bible really says what it says.

Is there not a contradiction here?

If the Bible contains errors, falsehoods (lies?), contradictions, and irrelevancies, then is that what it really says?

If the Bible contains errors, falsehoods, contradictions, and irrelevancies as you say, then why believe anything that is in it?

Why put any faith (*_*) in a book that you believe is in such poor condition?

Another question I think of is when the Bible says that Jesus was resurrected, what is the Bible really saying? I am very interested to know.

Mal x


This message is a reply to:
 Message 587 by jar, posted 07-09-2015 3:59 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 612 by jar, posted 07-13-2015 12:24 PM Mal has responded
 Message 613 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-13-2015 12:45 PM Mal has responded
 Message 614 by ringo, posted 07-13-2015 12:51 PM Mal has responded

  
Mal
Junior Member (Idle past 1555 days)
Posts: 15
From: Stockholm
Joined: 07-09-2015


Message 615 of 675 (762565)
07-13-2015 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 612 by jar
07-13-2015 12:24 PM


Re: Jesus is alive
Thank you for the reply.

I am with you 100% so far.

Mal x


This message is a reply to:
 Message 612 by jar, posted 07-13-2015 12:24 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 621 by jar, posted 07-13-2015 1:27 PM Mal has responded

  
Mal
Junior Member (Idle past 1555 days)
Posts: 15
From: Stockholm
Joined: 07-09-2015


Message 616 of 675 (762569)
07-13-2015 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 613 by New Cat's Eye
07-13-2015 12:45 PM


Re: Jesus is alive
Hi Cat Sci

The sky is green and two plus two equals four.

The fact that the first part is false does not render the second part false too.

The sky is green sometimes but I get your point.

The way I read Jar's reply was that he is saying there's a great deal of problems with the text, so if it is 'full' of problems then why bother with it.

The reason you should believe something that the Bible says is because you have assessed it and found it to be true.

There is so much in it that can not be proven, e.g. like the existence of God. These things are taken on faith.

I do get what you are saying. There may be true incidents some where in the texts.

Thank you

Mal. x


This message is a reply to:
 Message 613 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-13-2015 12:45 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 620 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-13-2015 1:24 PM Mal has not yet responded

  
Mal
Junior Member (Idle past 1555 days)
Posts: 15
From: Stockholm
Joined: 07-09-2015


Message 617 of 675 (762571)
07-13-2015 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 614 by ringo
07-13-2015 12:51 PM


Re: Jesus is alive
Hi Ringo,

Like any other source of information, we test it against reality. We accept what matches and discount what doesn't.

I am not convinced that many people do that.

Mal. x


This message is a reply to:
 Message 614 by ringo, posted 07-13-2015 12:51 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 618 by ringo, posted 07-13-2015 1:14 PM Mal has not yet responded

  
Mal
Junior Member (Idle past 1555 days)
Posts: 15
From: Stockholm
Joined: 07-09-2015


Message 619 of 675 (762574)
07-13-2015 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 610 by Faith
07-13-2015 11:00 AM


Re: Jesus is alive
hi Faith

I was an atheist until my mid forties. I grew up in a nominally Christian society of course, even went to church as a child but didn't really understand or believe any of it and declared myself an atheist at age fifteen. I didn't truly believe until I was converted some thirty years later.

This does fit in with the theory very well. In a nominally Christian society I am sure you would be very aware of Jesus and the Bible. If you were brought up in a nominally Muslim society (if that exists), you would be aware of Muhammad, the Qur'an, and Allah.

Yes you do have to believe the Bible is the word of God, and God Himself gives us that recognition,

I hope God offers this recognition to all of us sometime in our lives.

Thank you.

Mal. x


This message is a reply to:
 Message 610 by Faith, posted 07-13-2015 11:00 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 624 by Faith, posted 07-13-2015 4:25 PM Mal has responded

  
Mal
Junior Member (Idle past 1555 days)
Posts: 15
From: Stockholm
Joined: 07-09-2015


Message 626 of 675 (762743)
07-15-2015 8:03 AM
Reply to: Message 621 by jar
07-13-2015 1:27 PM


Re: Jesus is alive
Hi Jar

I am with you 100%

Nothing controversial so far.

Mal.x


This message is a reply to:
 Message 621 by jar, posted 07-13-2015 1:27 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 627 by jar, posted 07-15-2015 9:09 AM Mal has responded

  
Mal
Junior Member (Idle past 1555 days)
Posts: 15
From: Stockholm
Joined: 07-09-2015


Message 628 of 675 (762857)
07-16-2015 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 627 by jar
07-15-2015 9:09 AM


Re: Jesus is alive
I am still with you sir.

Still nothing surprising.

Thank you for taking little steps with me.

Mal.x


This message is a reply to:
 Message 627 by jar, posted 07-15-2015 9:09 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 630 by jar, posted 07-16-2015 8:18 PM Mal has responded

  
Mal
Junior Member (Idle past 1555 days)
Posts: 15
From: Stockholm
Joined: 07-09-2015


Message 629 of 675 (762858)
07-16-2015 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 624 by Faith
07-13-2015 4:25 PM


Re: Jesus is alive
Thankyou so much Faith for your reply.

If you really hope that, if you really want to recognize the Bible as God's word, you don't have to wait for God to transform you, all you have to do is decide to believe it and act on it. If you did that I have no doubt God would follow up with the supernatural part of it.

What if I were to be told by a Muslim to read to recognize the Qur'an as God's word, and all I had to do was to believe it and act on it, and if I did this then Allah would follow up with the supernatural part of it? Could that work as well.

I just think maybe humans can convince themselves anything is true if they try hard enough, and not everyone who is convinced they have the Truth can be correct.

I respect your answer and I am happy this has worked for you.

Growing up in a Christian society means very little about what you end up believing. I knew of Jesus of course but had no idea what made Him our Savior, how He'd died for our sins and so on, the basic gospel in other words. I'd missed that completely in my early church experience and had to learn it all from scratch when I did become a believer. My parents never went to church and never talked about God or Christ.

But, this still is in line with the theory, you DID grow up with some contact with Christianity.

One became a Zen Buddhist priestess and was still practicing that when I was in touch with her a few years ago.

Perhaps she has found the Truth?

So far here at EvC I have read posts from many different people, all appear to be equally convinced that they are correct.

Your posts are very convincing that you have found the Truth. But, it does appear that you have had an experience that many others have not.

Thankyou again for taking the time to reply.

Mal. x


This message is a reply to:
 Message 624 by Faith, posted 07-13-2015 4:25 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 631 by Faith, posted 07-16-2015 9:34 PM Mal has not yet responded

  
Mal
Junior Member (Idle past 1555 days)
Posts: 15
From: Stockholm
Joined: 07-09-2015


Message 635 of 675 (762899)
07-17-2015 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 630 by jar
07-16-2015 8:18 PM


Re: Jesus is alive
Still with you sir.

I am sure I will have many questions after your next post.

Mal. x


This message is a reply to:
 Message 630 by jar, posted 07-16-2015 8:18 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 636 by jar, posted 07-17-2015 3:50 PM Mal has responded

  
Mal
Junior Member (Idle past 1555 days)
Posts: 15
From: Stockholm
Joined: 07-09-2015


Message 638 of 675 (762957)
07-18-2015 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 636 by jar
07-17-2015 3:50 PM


Mal's learning curve
Hi Jar.

My spinning head had to happen some time.

Christianity has almost nothing to do with Jesus and Jesus was never a Christian anyway.

I have not heard this definition of Christianity before, and i have read a lot about Christianity. Christianity is named after Jesus THE Christ, so I would say any definition of Christianity would need this belief.

But I'm a Christian.

You are a Christian that does not believe Jesus died for your sins and was not God in the human form? Is this a correct definition?

Christianity is a map; it is not the territory itself. Christianity is also just one such map (actually one set of such maps) as is Buddhism, Taoism, Islam, Judaism, Satanism, Hinduism are also maps.

I do find this confusing. Are you saying that there is a God and all these different religions have clues to the real identity of this God?

It's important to keep the distinction in the forefront, we are dealing with maps not the territory.

I am thinking that you are saying that all these religions are untrue but all have some truth within them?

As mentioned above, Christianity is actually a whole set of maps, some old, outdated, filled with errors; others more recent with fewer errors and omissions but they are all still just maps and those using them must always test the map against reality.

I am not sure how spiritual truths can be tested against 'reality'. I think they can only be believed or not believed. Reality tells us a man cannot die for 3 days and come back to life but this is the foundation of Christianity and Christians need to have faith that this is true. St. Paul states this.

The fact that the map shows a bridge does not mean the bridge is there, that the road is not under construction, that there are not better routes to take.

So how does one know for sure if the bridge is there or not? :-?

The wise traveler will study several different maps and will note that some of the maps may be more accurate in some areas and less accurate in others and will then adopt the best from each.

I am so sorry but I do not understand this either. If you have a good enough map then why bother with any others?

I do understand this, but billions of people do not do what you are doing and appear happy. This does not mean you are incorrect I know, but why call yourself a Christian and not a Buddhist, or a Muslim, or a Hindu?

Also, what is making my mind explode is that to make sure you have not missed any of the total map you would need to know the religious texts of maybe countless religions to get to the truth.

I think there are far too many to be an expert on each, and you will not be allowed to reject the silly ones like the Book of Mormon because it may have some truth in it.

I am not saying you are wrong, I just think there are many problems IMO.

Still with me?

I am still with you along with my sore head

Thank you for being patient.

Mal. x


This message is a reply to:
 Message 636 by jar, posted 07-17-2015 3:50 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 639 by jar, posted 07-18-2015 11:37 AM Mal has not yet responded

  
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