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Author Topic:   The C.C.O.I. (Christian Cult Of Ignorance) and Willful Ignorance
Taq
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Posts: 8213
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 392 of 675 (742324)
11-18-2014 8:38 PM
Reply to: Message 382 by Faith
11-18-2014 6:31 PM


Re: An interesting example of women speaking during a service.
Things are, however, a lot worse now than they ever were before in my lifetime, if that's what you mean.

What things are worse? How would your life be better in the past than they are now?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 382 by Faith, posted 11-18-2014 6:31 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 394 by Faith, posted 11-18-2014 8:57 PM Taq has responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8213
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 393 of 675 (742325)
11-18-2014 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 383 by Faith
11-18-2014 6:35 PM


Mad as I get at all of you, when it really hits me how bad it is going to get I do feel sorry for all of you and hope you will see that Jesus can save you if things get as horrible as I think they are going to. It may be a lot harder on me at first but I'm not worried about me in the end, but I am worried about all of you.

Christians have been saying this for 2,000 years. When is it supposed to get bad?


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Faith
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Posts: 34351
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 394 of 675 (742327)
11-18-2014 8:57 PM
Reply to: Message 392 by Taq
11-18-2014 8:38 PM


Re: An interesting example of women speaking during a service.
What things are worse? How would your life be better in the past than they are now?

I don't think in terms of "my life." My life is neither better or worse now than it was fifteen or twenty years ago.

Just today we had the Muslim Imam as "guest chaplain" in Congress and the members actually bowed their heads for prayer to the demon god Allah. Then the imam went to the National Cathedral for a Muslim prayer service, which is where the woman jar mentioned protested. To you this is probably just fine, to me this is very heavy judgment by God against America from which I don't see any possible recovery. It's just a step to far worse. It may have to go much further before you notice things aren't exactly as you'd like them to be, and you probably won't make any connection with the true causes of it either. The nation is heavy with sins of all kinds.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 392 by Taq, posted 11-18-2014 8:38 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 32000
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 395 of 675 (742328)
11-18-2014 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 384 by Thugpreacha
11-18-2014 6:48 PM


Re: Open Mouth Insert Foot
Phat writes:

Jesus was not simply some human character that sinned and made mistakes.

Yet you claim to have read the Nicene Creed.

quote:
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.

And was made man.

Not man/god, not god disguised as man but man. Just man. A man with morals of his era, who lost his temper, snapped at his mom, used the resources of his friends to buy oils of himself.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 384 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-18-2014 6:48 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 397 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-19-2014 12:13 AM jar has responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8213
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 396 of 675 (742329)
11-18-2014 9:54 PM
Reply to: Message 394 by Faith
11-18-2014 8:57 PM


Re: An interesting example of women speaking during a service.
Just today we had the Muslim Imam as "guest chaplain" in Congress and the members actually bowed their heads for prayer to the demon god Allah.

You think showing respect to religious freedom is bad. I will keep that in mind.

To you this is probably just fine, to me this is very heavy judgment by God against America from which I don't see any possible recovery.

What judgement?

It may have to go much further before you notice things aren't exactly as you'd like them to be, and you probably won't make any connection with the true causes of it either. The nation is heavy with sins of all kinds.

How are things worse? People have never been more free. Medicine has never been better. We are living longer, and our children are more safe today than they ever have been in the past.

If this what it is like when things get worse, then I really, really hope that things do get worse.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 394 by Faith, posted 11-18-2014 8:57 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13539
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 397 of 675 (742331)
11-19-2014 12:13 AM
Reply to: Message 395 by jar
11-18-2014 9:10 PM


Re: Open Mouth Insert Foot
jar writes:

Yet you claim to have read the Nicene Creed.

quote:
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
And was made man.

Not man/god, not god disguised as man but man. Just man. A man with morals of his era, who lost his temper, snapped at his mom, used the resources of his friends to buy oils of himself.

Then why does the creed also say:
We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten of the Father [the only-begotten; that is, of the essence of the Father, God of God,] Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father;
I think that you have decided to believe that Jesus was only human. I do not believe this to be so.

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo

One of the major purposes of debate is to help you hone your arguments. Yours are pretty bad. They can use all the honing they can get.~Ringo


This message is a reply to:
 Message 395 by jar, posted 11-18-2014 9:10 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 398 by jar, posted 11-19-2014 8:31 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32000
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 398 of 675 (742346)
11-19-2014 8:31 AM
Reply to: Message 397 by Thugpreacha
11-19-2014 12:13 AM


Re: Open Mouth Insert Foot
I believe that while Jesus was alive here on earth Jesus was simply human, nothing but human. To me that is the only way to make sense of the message of resurrection. Gods can't get killed by mere mortals. If the pretend to die, allow something like death, but are really God then it is no big deal. It also says absolutely nothing about the possibility of there being some afterlife for humans.

Unless Jesus was fully and solely human while here on earth the whole message is but a sham, a fraud, a con job.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 397 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-19-2014 12:13 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 399 by Tangle, posted 11-19-2014 8:58 AM jar has responded
 Message 401 by GDR, posted 11-19-2014 10:22 AM jar has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7282
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 399 of 675 (742351)
11-19-2014 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 398 by jar
11-19-2014 8:31 AM


Re: Open Mouth Insert Foot
^^^^ suggest you reach for Occam's handy little tool.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 398 by jar, posted 11-19-2014 8:31 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 32000
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 400 of 675 (742354)
11-19-2014 9:21 AM
Reply to: Message 399 by Tangle
11-19-2014 8:58 AM


Re: Open Mouth Insert Foot
Ah, but there is such a thing as Faith and not all beliefs need be support by evidence, reasonable, logical or even rational.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 399 by Tangle, posted 11-19-2014 8:58 AM Tangle has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 407 by Thugpreacha, posted 11-19-2014 11:15 AM jar has responded

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 5056
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 401 of 675 (742358)
11-19-2014 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 398 by jar
11-19-2014 8:31 AM


Re: Open Mouth Insert Foot
jar writes:

I believe that while Jesus was alive here on earth Jesus was simply human, nothing but human. To me that is the only way to make sense of the message of resurrection. Gods can't get killed by mere mortals. If the pretend to die, allow something like death, but are really God then it is no big deal. It also says absolutely nothing about the possibility of there being some afterlife for humans.
Unless Jesus was fully and solely human while here on earth the whole message is but a sham, a fraud, a con job.

I'm curious as to what you mean by resurrection. Is it just a metaphor -is it an hallucination - or did Jesus come back in some form of renewed physicality?


He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 398 by jar, posted 11-19-2014 8:31 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 403 by jar, posted 11-19-2014 10:40 AM GDR has responded

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 5056
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 402 of 675 (742359)
11-19-2014 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 394 by Faith
11-18-2014 8:57 PM


Re: An interesting example of women speaking during a service.
Faith writes:

Just today we had the Muslim Imam as "guest chaplain" in Congress and the members actually bowed their heads for prayer to the demon god Allah. Then the imam went to the National Cathedral for a Muslim prayer service, which is where the woman jar mentioned protested. To you this is probably just fine, to me this is very heavy judgment by God against America from which I don't see any possible recovery. It's just a step to far worse. It may have to go much further before you notice things aren't exactly as you'd like them to be, and you probably won't make any connection with the true causes of it either. The nation is heavy with sins of all kinds.

I'd suggest that all names for God are simply words made up in different cultures. We happen to have chosen the word god to define the deity. The important thing is the nature of that deity. For example does the deity want us to militarily crush our enemies or does the deity want us to love our enemies.

IMHO I'd suggest that the deity doesn't much care whether we call him God, Yahweh or Allah as long as we understand that he is perfectly loving, merciful, forgiving and just, and wants those qualities to be the defining characteristics of our own lives.


He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 394 by Faith, posted 11-18-2014 8:57 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 418 by Faith, posted 11-19-2014 1:51 PM GDR has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32000
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 403 of 675 (742360)
11-19-2014 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 401 by GDR
11-19-2014 10:22 AM


Re: Open Mouth Insert Foot
I really don't have an answer for that particularly since the Biblical accounts are all so different, contradictory and mutually exclusive.

The 1st Corinthians account was likely the earliest and is a reporting it seems of what the common dogma of the day included.

quote:
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.


It says that Jesus rose but gives no details other than that something was seen by more than one person.

Then there is the account in Matthew and the long ending account in Mark.

The story evolves over time as I have pointed out many times here at EvC (see The evolution of the Great Commission over time.) as the Great Commission finally ending up with the totally different version found in John. With each iteration the story changes from a simple statement of an event to a commandment to go and do with no promise of any reward to one where folk are given the ability to perform miracles and to grant or deny salvation.

With each version the woo factor went up and the personal duty and responsibility factor went down.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 401 by GDR, posted 11-19-2014 10:22 AM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 404 by GDR, posted 11-19-2014 10:51 AM jar has responded

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 5056
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 404 of 675 (742363)
11-19-2014 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 403 by jar
11-19-2014 10:40 AM


Re: Open Mouth Insert Foot
All of the accounts though do agree on one thing. Jesus died at the hands of the Romans and that He later was resurrected by God as a renewed physical being, but one whose body was like His previous body but also different in that it wasn't confined to our space time universe.

IMHO that is what they believed. The question is whether or not they got it right. Do you believe they got it right or not.


He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 403 by jar, posted 11-19-2014 10:40 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 17820
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 405 of 675 (742369)
11-19-2014 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 387 by Thugpreacha
11-18-2014 7:05 PM


Re: Are people really becoming more moral?
Phat writes:

Modern warfare is more horrific and attrocious than anything in Pauls day.


From a moral standpoint, I don't think that's true. Technology has made the body count higher but people seem to feel worse about doing it. For example, we don't butcher prisoners wholesale like the Old Testament prescribes; we consider it a war crime.

Phat writes:

quote:
2 Tim 3:1-5 writes:
There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God- 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power.

Can anyone argue that this does not describe the life on the streets in any large modern city?


Name a time in history when it hasn't been true.

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member
Posts: 32000
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 406 of 675 (742370)
11-19-2014 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 404 by GDR
11-19-2014 10:51 AM


Re: Open Mouth Insert Foot
All of the accounts though do agree on one thing. Jesus died at the hands of the Romans and that He later was resurrected by God as a renewed physical being, but one whose body was like His previous body but also different in that it wasn't confined to our space time universe.

The last part about not being confined to our space time universe pretty much precludes any physical being and it certainly is NOT common to all of the various accounts.

AbE: sorry missed the second question.

I have no idea whether or not what you describe was right and disagree that there was much agreement between the stories beyond it being something people that actually knew Jesus could recognize as Jesus.

Edited by jar, : see AbE


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 404 by GDR, posted 11-19-2014 10:51 AM GDR has not yet responded

  
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