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Author Topic:   EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed - Science Under Attack
Chiroptera
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Posts: 6800
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 7.2


Message 3 of 438 (443721)
12-26-2007 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by garyl43
12-26-2007 2:09 PM


It's been talked about for a while on the internet, but it's been hard to get any information.

I finally thought of looking it up on Wikipedia.

Whether it'll be a "must see" is a good question.


"The guilty one is not he who commits the sin, but the one who causes the darkness."
Clearly, he had his own strange way of judging things. I suspect that he acquired it from the Gospels. -- Victor Hugo

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Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6800
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 7.2


Message 86 of 438 (460998)
03-20-2008 10:37 PM


News You Can Use
This was just posted on Pharyngula:

PZ Meyers, accompanied by Richard Dawkins, tried to see the movie Expelled as it was showing in a local theater. Meyers was pulled out of line by the theater management, accompanied by a uniformed security guard, and told he wasn't allowed to enter. Dawkins was allowed in without any problem.

Too funny.


Rats and roaches live by competition under the laws of supply and demand; it is the privilege of human beings to live under the laws of justice and mercy. -- Wendell Berry

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Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6800
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 7.2


Message 117 of 438 (463500)
04-17-2008 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by 1071
04-17-2008 7:06 PM


Re: your opinion is nutty and off-topic
I'm sure there are other threads where Hitler would be on topic (and, hey! Here is one!)

This is a thread about the movie Expelled. Unless you have some specific points to make about it or replies to specific criticisms, maybe you'd be better off in another thread.

-

This brings me to the new, now deemed controversial, documentary EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed. Ben Stein who was respected in the media as being an intelligent actor and comedian is now being viewed as "completely nuts or so avaricious that he's abandoned all good sense to make a buck".

Well, I don't know why someone who points out the obvious fact that Stein's movie is inaccurate and factually incorrect is similar to Hitler, but then I've never understood theology.


Speaking personally, I find few things more awesome than contemplating this vast and majestic process of evolution, the ebb and flow of successive biotas through geological time. Creationists and others who cannot for ideological or religious reasons accept the fact of evolution miss out a great deal, and are left with a claustrophobic little universe in which nothing happens and nothing changes.
-- M. Alan Kazlev

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Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6800
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 7.2


Message 136 of 438 (463629)
04-18-2008 9:06 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by 1071
04-17-2008 7:28 PM


nutty, but perhaps on topic
Okay, I did forget that a main theme of the movie was that Nazism was somehow based on the Darwinian evolution. And since the moderators haven't jumped in, I guess we can conclude that a discussion on this issue is on topic.

First, an obvious fact: whether or not people draw the wrong conclusions from the theory of evolution has nothing to do with whether or not it is factually accurate. Either all known species evolved from a single ancestral species through natural selection acting on heritable variations, or they did not. That some people will draw unwarranted racist conclusions has nothing to do with the accuracy of this theory. Its accuracy can only be determined through the examination of the evidence.

Another obvious fact: whether or not some unpleasant conclusions can, in fact, be logically deduced from the theory has nothing to do with its factual accuracy. Whether or not genocide can be justified by evolution, and whether or not you and I find genocide undesirable has nothing to do with whether or not the theory of evolution accurately describes the history of life on earth; its accuracy can only be determined by examining the facts.

Now the theory of evolution does not, in any way, in and of itself, imply any course of action, no more than the theory of gravity says that people should crawl on their bellies and avoid tall buildings. The theory of evolution takes the obvious observations that some organisms survive and produce many offspring, and other die after producing few or no offspring, and that this difference in reproduction is due to heritable characteristics, and uses these to explain the patterns we see in the diversity of the species.

Eugenics, on the other hand, involves arbitrarily choosing some physical characteristics (and some social characteristics assumed to have a heritable basis) as desirable and other as undesirable, and using selective breeding to promote the desirable characteristics and eliminate the undesirable ones.

In fact, this has nothing to do with the theory of evolution, at least not the part that is accepted by, say, creationists. Eugenics is applying to humans ordinary, mundane animal husbandry that has been practiced for thousands of years. People already knew that if one allows organisms with certain characteristics to breed and preventing others with undesirable characteristics to breed, one will achieve a population with more desirable characteristics and fewer undesirable ones.

The theory of evolution is an explanation for patterns in diversity; eugenics is a policy of eliminating diversity.


Speaking personally, I find few things more awesome than contemplating this vast and majestic process of evolution, the ebb and flow of successive biotas through geological time. Creationists and others who cannot for ideological or religious reasons accept the fact of evolution miss out a great deal, and are left with a claustrophobic little universe in which nothing happens and nothing changes.
-- M. Alan Kazlev

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Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6800
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 7.2


Message 140 of 438 (463723)
04-19-2008 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by 1071
04-19-2008 8:29 AM


Re: my opinion
only Dr.X payed lots of cash and has papers to say he is smart.

Sure. Dr. X went to an official professional program (and, by the way, it isn't very common for graduate students in the sciences to pay for their training -- they usually can get teaching or research assistantships to defray tuition costs) and was evaluated and trained by professionals who then judged the quality of his work before granting him his credentials.

And publishing papers means that he has presented his work to professionals who understand the field to be judged on its merits.

This is what science is all about.

Meanwhile, it's not clear that Mr. Z understands the books he's read or can actually do competent work until his work is evaluated by professionals who understand the field.

That actually is what authority is all about. It's about being able to trust the person's judgment because it her work is constantly being scrutinized and evaluated.


Speaking personally, I find few things more awesome than contemplating this vast and majestic process of evolution, the ebb and flow of successive biotas through geological time. Creationists and others who cannot for ideological or religious reasons accept the fact of evolution miss out a great deal, and are left with a claustrophobic little universe in which nothing happens and nothing changes.
-- M. Alan Kazlev

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 Message 138 by 1071, posted 04-19-2008 8:29 AM 1071 has not yet responded

Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6800
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 7.2


Message 142 of 438 (463728)
04-19-2008 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by Admin
04-19-2008 12:31 PM


Reply to GDR's OP.
Replying to GDR's OP here as per Admin request.

[Dawkins] wonders sometimes, he says, why all DNA has such a deliberate signature to it. It's almost as if someone, or something, put their “stamp” on it, and maybe even placed the seeds of this DNA, in cellular form, on the Earth, on purpose, intending that it would reproduce itself and spread.

Well, I don't know the context of this scene, but Dawkins has made other comments that I find a bit overblown and even a bit nutty:

"Darwin made it easy to become an intellectually fulfilled atheist."

That is another statement he made that is, frankly, a bit too dramatic. So maybe Dawkins has a habit of making odd statements.


Speaking personally, I find few things more awesome than contemplating this vast and majestic process of evolution, the ebb and flow of successive biotas through geological time. Creationists and others who cannot for ideological or religious reasons accept the fact of evolution miss out a great deal, and are left with a claustrophobic little universe in which nothing happens and nothing changes.
-- M. Alan Kazlev

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 Message 141 by Admin, posted 04-19-2008 12:31 PM Admin has acknowledged this reply

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