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Author Topic:   EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed - Science Under Attack
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 4 of 438 (443743)
12-26-2007 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Chiroptera
12-26-2007 3:14 PM


Just watch this trailer, it contains all the information you need:

http://www.expelledthemovie.com/playgroundvideo3.swf

Scary, scary stuff. Hard to believe that Ben Stein is a creationist and a conspiracy-monger to boot!

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Chiroptera, posted 12-26-2007 3:14 PM Chiroptera has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Lithodid-Man, posted 12-26-2007 5:37 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 8 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-26-2007 9:13 PM Percy has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 5 of 438 (443749)
12-26-2007 5:05 PM


Page of Trailers for Expelled

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 16 of 438 (443867)
12-27-2007 7:54 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Hyroglyphx
12-26-2007 9:13 PM


Re: Making the claim for him
Of course it's not scary to you, dear, the lies aren't about you, and you don't think they're lies, anyway.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-26-2007 9:13 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 17 of 438 (443868)
12-27-2007 8:14 AM


My Personal Reaction
There are a couple questions first. We see it every day here, the effectiveness of the lie that creationism is science just like evolution. How much more effective is the lie packaged up into a slick documentary narrated by a comforting, trustworthy, grandfatherly narrator like Ben Stein?

Will this documentary, like most documentaries, will be released and disappear? Or will it, like The Thin Blue Line of many years ago, break through into the national consciousness?

At a minimum it should prove popular across the Bible Belt. One can imagine that even if it isn't carried by local theatres that fundamentalist churches in places like Dover, Pennsylvania, and Topeka, Kansas, will be running it nightly for months. Blockbuster and Netflix will likely carry it. Many will buy it. It might possibly receive a lot of attention nationally. It doesn't seem impossible that the current whining about supposed scientific censorship of creationist views will become a deafening national outcry.

Of course, this will all be taking place during a presidential election year. The first primary will be January 8, 2008, here in New Hampshire, and the film's release is just a month later. Candidates who were recently asked for a show of hands of who did not believe in evolution (was it three hands that were raised?) will now be asked their reaction to the charges in the documentary and what they plan to do about it as president.

The problem of communicating the difference between proposing an idea and doing the science to support the idea, the one that we see writ here in the small everyday and that occasionally gets writ larger on the national scene when events like Dover and Kansas occur, could be about to get writ larger than we've ever seen it before. Given that the intended audience is the American public, which for the most part doesn't know that a year is the time it takes for the earth to orbit the sun and can't find Iceland on an unmarked map, is science ready to make their case with effectiveness and clarity? Is it even possible?

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-27-2007 12:25 PM Percy has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 22 of 438 (443957)
12-27-2007 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Hyroglyphx
12-27-2007 12:25 PM


Re: My Personal Reaction
This isn't your battle, dear. I'm sure you have your own worries, attend to them.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-27-2007 12:25 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 28 of 438 (443994)
12-27-2007 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Taz
12-27-2007 5:59 PM


Re: My Personal Reaction
Have you recently been transferred to the Department of Redundancy Department? :D

I'm far less concerned about creationists like NJ than I am about the American public. Almost all documentaries receive very little attention, and maybe that will be the case here, but if it isn't then it raises the very real danger of a kneejerk political reaction in the face of an outraged populous. What will be the response of the scientific community? Will they send out Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and Daniel Dennet (Brights???) to further alienate the masses? Is a measured response that makes clear why ID isn't science why this is the ID community's fault within the ability of the scientific community? I'm frankly very worried.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Taz, posted 12-27-2007 5:59 PM Taz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Taz, posted 12-27-2007 6:36 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 31 by Thor, posted 12-27-2007 10:28 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 53 of 438 (444489)
12-29-2007 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by tesla
12-29-2007 2:41 PM


Re: OK, enough already
tesla writes:

long story..a any rate the win 98 program only has minimal programs, and to my dismay, no spellcheck.

Notepad and Wordpad are available for editing on Win98.

For spellchecking, if you use Internet Explorer or Firefox, then Google Toolbar includes a spellchecker (http://toolbar.google.com). Whatever you type into the message reply box is spellchecked when you click on the Google Toolbar spellcheck button.

If you can use the latest version of Firefox with Win98, it automatically spellchecks everything you type into the message reply box.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by tesla, posted 12-29-2007 2:41 PM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by tesla, posted 12-29-2007 4:35 PM Percy has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 56 of 438 (444501)
12-29-2007 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by tesla
12-29-2007 4:35 PM


Re: OK, enough already
Another good one is 1-Click Answers. Just hold down the alt key, click your mouse on any word anywhere on your screen, and a window will pop up with the definition. Including supercalifragilisticexpialidocious!

--Percy


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Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by BMG, posted 04-19-2008 8:00 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 72 of 438 (444706)
12-30-2007 1:25 PM


And now, a word from our topic...
Since there seems to be some uncertainty about how discussion should proceed from here, it's worth noting that this thread has been off-topic since very early on. See thread title.

--Percy


  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 75 of 438 (459723)
03-09-2008 3:41 PM


Ben Stein on the Interview Circuit
The release date for the movie has been set back from February to April 18th.

Here's an interview of Ben Stein with Bill O'Reilly from last October 22:

Here's another with Glenn Beck:

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by RAZD, posted 03-09-2008 4:02 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 87 of 438 (461019)
03-21-2008 8:28 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by Chiroptera
03-20-2008 10:37 PM


Re: News You Can Use
From Pharyngula:

PZ Myers writes:

Nobody had a ticket. You reserved a seat online, and they checked your name off their list at the front of the line.

I was not trying to sneak in. I reserved my seats under my own name.

I was called aside by a security guard, who asked if my name was PZ Myers, and who said that the producer had specifically asked that I be removed.

So I presume Richard Dawkins had also reserved a seat online? I wonder if he used his own name. Since he's in the movie maybe they felt they shouldn't prevent him from attending a screening.

Here's a review of the movie by Roger Moore of the Orlando Sentinel. They apparently attempted to prevent his attendance, but he got in anyway. The review includes a YouTube clip that no longer works, so I wonder if the producers requested it be removed.

You know what's worst about this for me, at least until I actually get to see the movie? I like Ben Stein, or did.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Chiroptera, posted 03-20-2008 10:37 PM Chiroptera has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Modulous, posted 03-21-2008 8:47 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 89 by Asgara, posted 03-21-2008 11:31 AM Percy has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 90 of 438 (461029)
03-21-2008 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by Asgara
03-21-2008 11:31 AM


Re: News You Can Use
Oh, it's just the film's trailer.

My version of Internet Explorer, which is 7.0, won't play it because he's rendered an ampersand as a literal. This one should work for anyone:

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Asgara, posted 03-21-2008 11:31 AM Asgara has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 101 of 438 (462729)
04-08-2008 8:24 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by Modulous
04-08-2008 3:14 AM


Re: reviews
I agree, I think you've identified the key point. When Ben Stein asks, "Why not God?" he's actually declaring, "ID is religion." Perhaps much less to fear here than I originally thought.

But of course, then there's the Florida legislature considering a law that provides job protection for those taking a position against evolution. This is the kind of traction I'm worried about, because the law has little use beyond protecting teachers who present unscientific ideas in the science classroom.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Modulous, posted 04-08-2008 3:14 AM Modulous has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 110 of 438 (463120)
04-12-2008 8:20 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by molbiogirl
04-12-2008 1:47 AM


Re: Clips from the movie
Just noting a few things:

  • The 4th clip includes mentions of eugenics and Nazism, including a clip of Hitler.

  • The 5th clip includes a shot of a monkey using a laptop under the narration of the familiar monkies/typewriters/Shakespeare story.

  • The 6th and 7th clips are the long and short versions of the movie trailer that most of us have probably seen already.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by molbiogirl, posted 04-12-2008 1:47 AM molbiogirl has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Taz, posted 04-12-2008 11:55 AM Percy has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 113 of 438 (463130)
04-12-2008 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Taz
04-12-2008 11:55 AM


Re: Clips from the movie
Taz writes:

Percy, I'm asking you now. Do you think this is a satire? I still can't tell.

Obviously not satire, don't know why you're even considering the possibility. It will be interesting to finally see it and discover if it's really as poorly made as initial reports claim. Tactics like allusions to Hitler are something you'd expect from a first year film student with delusions of significance, so it doesn't seem promising.

But quality aside, the film will succeed in cementing in fundamentalist minds how misbegotten and evil is evolution. The lesson ID learned from creationism is, "When the facts is on your side then use the facts, otherwise obfuscate and demonize."

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Taz, posted 04-12-2008 11:55 AM Taz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Taz, posted 04-13-2008 4:18 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
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