Links for the Creation/Evolution Controversy (not a debate topic)

http://blogs.suntimes.com/...008/12/win_ben_steins_mind.htmlFound via Panda's Thumb, which in turn found it via Bad Astronomy.Probably everything you'll ever need to rebut any claims that it is a quality film.Do not debate this in this topic. If you wish to debate it, please see the guidlines in message 1.MooseEdited by Minnemooseus, : Added the "Probably" sentence.

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Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment. "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham

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"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

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"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." - H.L. Mencken (1880-1956)

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"Nixon was a professional politician, and I despised everything he stood for ” but if he were running for president this year against the evil Bush-Cheney gang, I would happily vote for him." - Hunter S. Thompson

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"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose

Taken to School: An Interview with the Honorable Judge John E. Jones, IIITaken to School: An Interview with the Honorable Judge John E. Jones, III | PLOS Genetics-----I was alerted to this by Carol at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/evolutionversuscreationism/ (the precursor of ). Even if you never post there, it may well be worth being a member just to get Carol's tidbits. Just be sure you're set up to receive the messages via e-mail.From Carol's message there:

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Dear Friends of NCSE,

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Judge Jones, who presided over Kitzmiller v. Dover, is interviewed in PLoS
Genetics. The fourth issue of Evolution: Education and Outreach is now
available. And Roger Ebert offers his opinion about Expelled.

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JUDGE JONES IN PLOS GENETICS

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Judge John E. Jones III, who presided over the Kitzmiller v. Dover trial,
was interviewed by Jane Gitschier for PLoS Genetics. After recounting his
legal career and sketching the legal history of the creationism/evolution
controversy, Jones talked about the trial itself. Describing the expert
testimony he heard, Jones commented, "I will always remember Ken Miller's
testimony in the sense that he did A-Z evolution. And then got into
intelligent design. And having laid the foundation with the description of
evolution, got into why intelligent design doesn't work as science, to the
point where it is predominantly a religious concept." He added, "But Ken
Miller went into the immune system, the blood clotting cascade, and the
bacterial flagellum -- all three are held out by intelligent design
proponents as irreducibly complex, and in effect, having no precursors. He
[Miller] knocked that down, I thought, quite effectively -- so
comprehensively and so well. By the time Miller was done testifying, over
the span of a couple of days, the defendants were really already in the hole."

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The expert witnesses for the defense were less impressive to
Jones: "Another remarkable moment on the science side was Michael Behe,
who was the lead witness for the defendants, and a very amiable fellow, as
was Ken Miller, but unlike Miller, in my view, Professor Behe did not
distinguish himself. He did not hold up well on cross-examination." And
the school board witnesses for the defense, whom Jones lambasted in his
decision, he described as "dreadful witnesses ... hence the description
'breathtaking inanity' and 'mendacity.' In my view, they clearly lied
under oath. They made a very poor account of themselves. They could not
explain why they did what they did. They really didn't even know what
intelligent design was. It was quite clear to me that they viewed
intelligent design as a method to get creationism into the public school
classroom. They were unfortunate and troublesome witnesses. Simply
remarkable, in that sense."

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Noting that the plaintiffs and defendants both asked for a ruling on the
question of whether "intelligent design" constitutes science, Jones said,
"if you're going to measure the effect of a particular policy, in this case
juxtaposing intelligent design with evolution, on the intended recipients,
you have to delve into what the policy is about. What was it about? It
was about intelligent design. And to try to determine the effect on the
recipients you have to determine what does that concept or phrase stand
for? Hence, we got into a search and examination of what exactly does ID
say, what is its basis, what are its scientific bona fides or lack
thereof. That opens the door for a determination of whether ID is in fact
science. And that is what that part of the opinion was. ... I wrote about
whether ID, as presented to me, in that courtroom from September to
November of 2005, was science, and I said it was not. That it was the
progeny, the successor to creationism and creation science. That it was
dressed-up creationism."

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Looking forward, Jones expressed uncertainty about the long-term effect of
the Kitzmiller decision, commenting, "This is speculation on my part -- I
don't think that the concept of ID itself has a lot of vitality going
forward. The Dover trial discredited that thing that is ID. To the extent
that I follow it -- I'm curious about it, but it doesn't go any further
than that -- the likely tack going forward is something like teach the
controversy, talk about the alleged flaws and gaps in the theory of
evolution and go to that place first." He noted that creationists in both
Texas and Louisiana seem to be taking such a tack. And, he noted, there is
no prospect of the creationism/evolution controversy subsiding any time
soon: "They gave me the last word in 'Judgment Day' [a NOVA program on the
trial] and I said this is not something that will be settled in my time or
even in my grandchildren's lifetimes. It's an enduring, quintessentially
American, dispute."

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If someone has track of a good "Intelligent Design" topic to plug this into, please do such."LINKS AND INFORMATION" IS NOT A DEBATE FORUM - ANY DEBATE OF THIS MATERIAL SHOULD HAPPEN ELSEWHERE.MooseADDED BY EDIT: OK, I found a relevant topic place for it.Edited by Minnemooseus, : Had an "in in" in the subtitle.Edited by Minnemooseus, : See above.

From the Geoscience Research Institute (an Adventist Church organization): HISTORICAL DEVELOPMENT OF THE CURRENT UNDERSTANDING OF THE GEOLOGIC COLUMN: PART IThe in a few words version:

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In the past 250-300 years a major paradigm shift has taken place regarding the history of the earth. It would be safe to say that prior to this time period a large majority of practicing scientists either held a strong belief in a biblical account of origins or at least were not antagonistic to such a concept. Parallel to this belief was the development of geology, a separate discipline or science. Observations that showed similarity of rock and fossil types over large geographical ranges were begun to be appreciated as well as the uniqueness of certain strata with respect to the presence or absence of various life forms.

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These studies resulted in various theories which attempted to explain the geologic picture.

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A major influence early in this time of new models was A. C. Werner (1749-1817). Werner held that the various rock layers were formed by precipitation of materials from turbid seas. Werner and his followers (the Neptunists) presented a major diversion from the traditional interpretation. James Hutton (1726-1799) recognized the true nature of some rocks as being volcanic in origin and overemphasized this source of material in the fossil record. The concept of erosion and deposition was also developed by Hutton with the slowness of this process recognized.

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William Smith (1769-1839) recognized the widespread occurrence of various layers and his work implied major geologic changes over wide areas.

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In addition to the stratigraphic studies, analysis of fossil remains also began. Dominant in these areas was the work done by Georges Cuvier (1769-1832). A comparative anatomist, Cuvier was able to make identifications of fossil fragments and place them into taxonomic groups. With these studies came the realization that fossils might be used as indices in identifying similar but widely separated strata. Cuvier also developed the concept that the geologic record is the result of short catastrophic bursts with long, quiet intervals between. These forerunners provided a milieu in which the future formulators of the geologic column could now work.

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HISTORICAL DEVELOPMENT OF THE CURRENT UNDERSTANDING OF THE GEOLOGIC COLUMN: PART IIThe in a few words version:

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In Part I (ORIGINS 8:59-76) of this series on historical interpretations of the geologic column, the author discussed the early developmental stages in the science of geology. After the basic concepts of geological principles were formed, a period of reinterpretation of the earth's crust followed. Part II discusses these times.

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Notable geologists, including William Buckland, Adam Sedgwick, Roderick Impey Murchison, and Charles Lyell, began to view the earth's formation in terms of very long ages. Though none would accept an atheistic origin for the earth, all felt compelled to believe that Scripture was an inadequate guide to aid their interpretation of the features in the geologic column. God was still considered to be the founder and originator of life. The uniformitarian principle postulated by Hutton years earlier became nearly universally accepted, and the Noachian flood was not considered to be a suitable explanation for the geologic column.

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In order to answer the problem of increasing complexity within the geologic column, a multiple-creation hypothesis was developed by a number of geologists. God was still actively involved, but the six-day creation week was substituted with a form of progressive creation. The concept of Darwinian evolution which involved gradual change from one species to another was not widespread, and the diversity seen in the geologic column was attributed to multiple-creation events.

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Realizing that these concepts damaged a literal interpretation of Scripture, conservative Christian scientists reacted understandably in vigorous defense of more traditional views. A time of heated debates and discussions ensued. These exchanges resulted in a polarization of views concerning earth history, a legacy that our current generation continues to inherit.

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The main pages go into considerable detail.Somewhat odd in that they were written by a biology, not geology professor. Regardless, it seems to be a pretty good overview of the geologic column historical perspective. And it's from a YEC (young Earth creationist) organization.Although they still have plenty of YEC peculiarities, GRISDA has long struck me as making the best YEC effort to connect things up to an honest study of geologic reality.Moose

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Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment. "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham

​

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

​

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." - H.L. Mencken (1880-1956)

​

"Nixon was a professional politician, and I despised everything he stood for ” but if he were running for president this year against the evil Bush-Cheney gang, I would happily vote for him." - Hunter S. Thompson

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"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose

By Kevin Padian and Nicholas Matzke.Found this via Panda's Thumb.The abstract:

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ID (”intelligent design’) is not science, but a form of creationism; both are very different from the simple theological proposition that a divine Creator is responsible for the natural patterns and processes of the Universe. Its current version maintains that a ”Designer’ must intervene miraculously to accomplish certain natural scientific events. The verdict in the 2005 case Kitzmiller, et al. v. Dover School District, et al. (in Harrisburg, PA, U.S.A.) was a landmark of American jurisprudence that prohibited the teaching of ID as science, identified it as religiously based, and forbade long-refuted ”criticisms of evolution’ from introduction into public school classes. Much of the science of the trial was based on biochemistry; biochemists and other scientists have several important opportunities to improve scientific literacy and science education in American public schools (”state schools’) by working with teachers, curriculum developers and textbook writers.

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The full paper:http://www.biochemj.org/bj/417/0029/bj4170029.htmorhttp://www.biochemj.org/bj/417/0029/4170029.pdfMooseEdited by Minnemooseus, : Put an "and" between the two names at the message top.

Found this via Panda's Thumb. Why Darwin was wrong about the tree of life, the article in question. Pharyngula's mention of it.What seems to be the two major blog discussions of the matter: EVOLUTIONBLOGSANDWALKPanda's Thumb's opening paragraph:

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One of the great frustrations of science journalism is its tendency to sensationalize every small advance into a worldview shattering revolution. As a case in point, consider this article, from the current issue of New Scientist magazine.

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Quoting the beginning of the SANDWALK article:

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The cover is this week's issue of New Scientist is sure to get your attention.

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I happen to believe that the science of evolutionary biology has moved on since 1859, and I happen to be a proponent of evolutionary processes that Darwin new nothing about. Nevertheless, proclaiming that "Darwin was wrong" is a different story. That's an egregious example of journalistic hype and it's unacceptable in a magazine like New Scientist.

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The main article is Why Darwin was wrong about the tree of life. The author is science journalist Graham Lawton.

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The essence of the story is that the early history of evolution is probably characterized by a net of life and not a traditional tree. The "net" metaphor is due to many example of lateral gene transfer.

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Currently Conservapedia has a link to the article in question at the top of their "In the News" column:

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Evolution is dead. Long live evolution! It looks like a "central tenet" of evolution”the evolutionary "tree" of life"”is being discarded.[8] But does this evidence mean that evolution is wrong? Of course not! We just invent a new version of evolution, because we can't have those "blinkered" creationists being right![9].

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Moose

Discovered (or rediscovered) this via Answers in Genesis BUSTED!: The Jesus Project. Quoting their first two paragraph:

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For those of you who have not heard of the Jesus Project (or the massive write-up Richard Carrier did of one of their meetings), it is a secular attempt to reconstruct who Jesus probably was and the events in his life (if indeed there was a Jesus, which is a question which will be addressed). Here's an excerpt from the Jesus Project's Intro:

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"We believe the mixing of theological motives and historical inquiry is impermissible. We regard previous attempts to rule the question out of court as vestiges of a time when the Church controlled the boundaries of permissible inquiry into its sacred books. More directly, we regard the question of the historical Jesus as a testable hypothesis, and we are committed to no prior conclusions about the outcome of our inquiry. This is a statement of our principles, and we intend to stick to them."

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In that paragraph, AIG Busted refers (directly or indirectly) to a couple of Richard Carrier Blog articles:Richard Carrier Blogs: The Jesus Project
Richard Carrier Blogs: Amherst ConferenceAlso, the into of the project itself:http://www.jesus-project.com/intro.htmI thought all this should be of interest to the "Who was the real Jesus" people.Moose

Get your evcforum tee-shirts and coffee mugs here:Gifts - CafePressIs Percy getting a piece of the action?Moose

Tip of the hat to kbertsche: A direct link to the index page of his books and papers: Daniel E. Wonderly Memorial Library | IBRI | Interdisciplinary Biblical Research InstituteThe "Complete Contents of the Daniel E. Wonderly Memorial Library Sorted by Title": http://www.wonderlylib.ibri.org/.../Contents-wonderlylib.htmThe above includes his two books; God's Time-Records in Ancient Sediments: Evidences of Long Time Spans in Earth's HistoryNeglect of Geologic Data: Sedimentary Strata Compared with Young-Earth Creationist WritingsMoose

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Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment. "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham

​

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

​

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." - H.L. Mencken (1880-1956)

​

"Nixon was a professional politician, and I despised everything he stood for ” but if he were running for president this year against the evil Bush-Cheney gang, I would happily vote for him." - Hunter S. Thompson

​

"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose

Creation/Evolution Journal

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All issues are now available in PDF format. (They are fully searchable using Acrobat Reader's search function; however, the text was converted using optical character recognition software and was not proofread for accuracy, so searches may not be entirely reliable.) Additionally, selected articles have been transcribed for the web and are available here. More articles will be transcribed in the future.

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Found via Panda's Thumb.Moose

Chris Mooney and Sheril Kirshenbaum - Unscientific America: How Scientific Illiteracy Threatens Our FutureThis book has been controversial in the science blogosphere etc. PZ Myers/Pharyngula has been notably harsh towards it.The PZ Myers comments, oldest to newest:

Unscientific America: How Scientific Illiteracy Threatens Our Future
Unscientific America and those awful atheists
Unscientific America, the gift that keeps on giving
Unscientific America: still useless
Unscientific America: it's personal!Joshua Rosenau is much more favorable:
Unscientific AmericaAlso Jason Rosenhouse:
Reviewing Unscientific America, Part One
Reviewing Unscientific America, Part TwoOf course, more links via the above cited.No, I haven't read the book. I did read Mooney's The Republican War on Science.Moose

From Adminnemooseus's message 1: I put the "essentially bare links" out as being references to reading about something elsewhere. If someone wishes to make a debate topic of it, they should start a new Book Nook topic, where they can add the information to the links. I'm not interested in doing such.Moose

Found this via Answers in Genesis Busted.Which links to this commentary at Panda's Thumb.The quote of the PT commentary that was posted at the AIGBusted site:

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"[W]hat reached Germany was not the English version of Origin of Species, it was a translation by German paleontologist Heinrich Georg Bronn that was a main source of German notions of Darwinian evolution, and those notions were a distortion of Darwin's views. Bronn had a substantially different conception of evolution than Darwin, and Bronn's translation apparently incorporated a good bit of his own conception rather than being a straight translation of Darwin. Bronn even added an extra chapter to OoS incorporate his own ideas."

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Added by edit: This should NOT be debated in this topic. If you wish to do such, find an existing topic or start a new one.MooseEdited by Minnemooseus, : See above.Edited by Minnemooseus, : Fixed (I hope) the " mark glitch truncation of the subtitle.Edited by Minnemooseus, : Fixed Panda's thumb link (which mysteriously disappeared), and also some weird characters that somehow got substituted in for the ' mark

I had a message in progress, but lost it to a Firefox lock up in this #@*&% computer I'm using. I shall sort of try again. PK Myers observations etc. on when old Earth science happens in a young Earth creationism university.Also further reading at several linked sites.A Glen Davidson comment that I liked included:

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The SDAs are in a kind of hopeless situtation there, because they actually believe fairly strongly in education and in science. They really did think once that if science was done properly, it would just support the Bible, while most of the relevant scientists in the SDA church know rather better than that at present.

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MooseAdded by edit: For further exposure to SDA science efforts, you may wish to muck around the Geoscience Research Institute site.Edited by Minnemooseus, : See above.

http://www.clarku.edu/~piltdown/Preface&gratitude.htmlThat's just the little introduction - See the link at page bottom for more, more, more.Moose

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Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.

​

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham

​

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

​

"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien

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"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose

Discovered via Pharyngula.PZ Myers says: To see the whole grand plan, go to http://conservapedia.com/Conservative_Bible_ProjectTHIS SHOULD NOT BE DEBATED IN THIS TOPIC. IF YOU WANT A DEBATE TOPIC, PLEASE ADD SOME MORE CONTENT AND TAKE IT TO THE PROPOSED NEW TOPICS FORUM.Moose

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Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.

​

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham

​

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

​

"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien

​

"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose