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Author Topic:   Links for the Creation/Evolution Controversy (not a debate topic)
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 100 of 143 (766172)
08-13-2015 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Coyote
08-13-2015 9:50 AM


Re: Evolution News and Views
That website is sponsored by the Discovery Institute.
I wouldn't trust anything they say.

I think the important thing is that we can trust the web site as presenting an opinion on ID. Surely that is of interest to people debating the topic.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Coyote, posted 08-13-2015 9:50 AM Coyote has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 102 of 143 (769188)
09-17-2015 6:15 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by mike the wiz
09-17-2015 5:49 AM


ust posted this at EFF.

Oh, look. Your post already has a rebuttal that is a pretty good start on why your point is pretty silly. I'll add another point. The fact that we do find similarities even in situations that you say are difficult would seem to be the final nail in the coffin for your double talk. Of course more dissimilar animals are more have fewer similarities. How could that not be the case by definition. And yet we still find hind leg remnants in a whale that show similarities to hippos.

What's your point again? More dissimilar things look less similar to each other than more similar things do, hence what?

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by mike the wiz, posted 09-17-2015 5:49 AM mike the wiz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by mike the wiz, posted 09-17-2015 6:36 AM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 104 of 143 (769199)
09-17-2015 7:44 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by mike the wiz
09-17-2015 6:36 AM


But that's exactly my point. A whale is a mammal, with mammalian-bones by design, so to find bones of land-mammals that look similar to it is tautologous.

So all mammals are not just alike, but the same so that finding consistent structures in mammals is tautologous. Mike, that's nonsense.

Have you noticed there isn't anything really all that similar to a seahorse and so there are no ancestors for that fish.

Given that I am not a biologist, is what I've 'noticed' really the point?

Yeah, there do seem to be ancestors for a sea horse.

http://fusedjaw.com/...beginners-guide-to-seahorse-evolution

Why is it that where there is dissimilarity, there tends to be no evolution-story? I don't see you providing a whole selection for platypus evolution, unless you are going to use ducks as your transitionals.

That is not what you've shown, Mike. Evolution is not a straight line, it is a tree. The common ancestors for dissimilar things are very distant. When you look at the leaves, you have to follow a long way before you get to the trunk.

Dissimilar things look different. Yes. And to get there you take large groupings like mammals and say that they are all the same, despite the huge differences between them.

Well that's exactly what is expected. Evolution and common descent necessarily produces a tree like structure in which the things you are suggesting are expected. Close relatives have more similar traits that distant relatives, yet we can find evolutionary paths between even reptiles and mammals. There is no reason at all for a sea horse to have any substantial morphological similarities to mammals or reptiles. On the other hand, there is no real reason to expect a tree like structure for special creation.

Does a platypus have a place in the tree? Yes it does have a place as being a mammal that is common to other mammals from an extremely distant branch. Are you claiming that we cannot find similarities with other mammals? Well you don't seem to be. In fact, the platypus reinforces the idea that there is a link between mammals and reptiles.

Engage your own brain, bro.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by mike the wiz, posted 09-17-2015 6:36 AM mike the wiz has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 106 of 143 (794723)
11-21-2016 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by dwise1
11-19-2016 1:15 PM


Re: Nazis were Creationists
Nazi ideology and practice taught and relied entirely on artificial selection (used by breeders of livestock), not Darwinism's natural selection.

While it is true that eugenics is about artificial selection, that alone does not prevent eugenics from being based on Darwin's observations and writings. Origin of species has a lot to say about artificial selection, and builds upon ideas observed about artificial selection to make statements about natural selection.

Eugenics was once considered a progressive idea in the US and was not completely disavowed until late in the twentieth century. From the wikipedia article on the Eugenics in the US.

quote:
Eugenics was practised in the United States many years before eugenics programs in Nazi Germany[5] and U.S. programs provided much of the inspiration for the latter.[6][7][8] Stefan Kühl has documented the consensus between Nazi race policies and those of eugenicists in other countries, including the United States, and points out that eugenicists understood Nazi policies and measures as the realization of their goals and demands

So what was the scientific basis for eugenics (if any?)

quote:
The American eugenics movement was rooted in the biological determinist ideas of Sir Francis Galton, which originated in the 1880s. Galton studied the upper classes of Britain, and arrived at the conclusion that their social positions were due to a superior genetic makeup.[11] Early proponents of eugenics believed that, through selective breeding, the human species should direct its own evolution. They tended to believe in the genetic superiority of Nordic, Germanic and Anglo-Saxon peoples;

Now given the connections between Galton and Darwin, I think it would be foolish to deny the source of some of the ideas behind eugenics. On the other hand, there is little reason to blame Darwin for reporting truthful observations. Galton and his followers, or the other hand...


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by dwise1, posted 11-19-2016 1:15 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
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