Using the Bible as fact...

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Originally posted by Peter:
Would you care to elaborate the difference between 'an opinion
on the meaning of a text' and 'the interpretation of a text' ?

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***Sure! I would be glad to!Interpretation: Explanation of what is obscure; A translation from one language into another. [New International Dictionary]Opinion: That which is opined; belief stronger than impression, less strong than positive knowledge. [New International Dictionary]I hope that helps! Shalom Jet------------------
Please limit signatures to at most a couple hundred characters. --Percy

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Originally posted by Jet:
***Sure! I would be glad to!

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Interpretation: Explanation of what is obscure; A translation from one language into another. [New International Dictionary]

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My dictionary has:Interpretation: to decide what the intended meaning of something is (Cambridge International Dictionary)Let's see... you also get:Interpretation: to concieve in the light of individual belief, judgement or circumstance (Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary)These come to mind long before the senses of "translation" or "transliteration"Take care.------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com

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Originally posted by Jet:
***Sure! I would be glad to!

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Interpretation: Explanation of what is obscure; A translation from one language into another. [New International Dictionary]

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Opinion: That which is opined; belief stronger than impression, less strong than positive knowledge. [New International Dictionary]

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I hope that helps!

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Shalom

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Jet

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I asked for the difference in meaning between two phrases ...
you have provided dictionary defintions of two words.Not the same, try again

[QUOTE]Originally posted by John:.......These come to mind long before the senses of "translation" or "transliteration"***And that in itself is a matter of "opinion".*** Shalom Jet------------------
There is for me powerful evidence that there is something going on behind it all....It seems as though somebody has fine-tuned nature's numbers to make the Universe....The impression of design is overwhelming.Professor Paul Davies

Sounds like semantics to me. Did I miss something? Shalom Jet------------------
There is for me powerful evidence that there is something going on behind it all....It seems as though somebody has fine-tuned nature's numbers to make the Universe....The impression of design is overwhelming.Professor Paul Davies

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jet:
***And that in itself is a matter of "opinion".***
[/B][/QUOTE]Yes, it is. But words carry with them more than their strict definitions. I found far more references to interpretation as an expression of opinion, than as translation. My experience as an English speaker in an English country leads me to believe that this is by far the most common association with the word.You are technically correct. I can't argue that. It just seems that you'd choose a word less likely to cause misunderstanding.Not to mention that numerous informal logical fallacies depend upon just this sort of word play-- alternate meanings... that sort of thing.Take care.------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com

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Originally posted by Jet:
Sounds like semantics to me. Did I miss something?

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Shalom

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Jet

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Yep ... you missed answering my question.And it is semantics ... in so much as semantics is about
meaning ... and I directly asked you a question concerning
the meaning of two different phrases.The definition of interpretation that you use is a valid one,
I'm not disputing that ... but in the context of the phrase
it doesn't seem to fit.'An opinion on the meaning of a text' suggests a subjective
assigning of meaning to the written words of the text ...
that is 'an interpretation of the text'.In the context within which you used them, I cannot see any different
content ... and asked you to elaborate that difference.You haven't ... you have provided isolated dictionary defintions ...
selected out of the large number of possible definitions for each
word.This leads me back to the topic of this thread.You have found debate and differing opinions over two, very simple
looking phrases.How then can you claim the Bible as fact, when it contains much more
complex textual content, which itself has been translated across
many languages (not to mention blatantly changed for
political ends).

John says:
Yes, it is. But words carry with them more than their strict definitions.***I agree! Unfortunately, many EVOs abandon this line of reasoning when it comes to "definition". If a strict definition is necessary for their prodigals, then strict it is. However, it a broad definition is required, then adherence to those previous guidelines is abandoned in order to support their assertion. I do not necessarily imply that you fall into this category, as it seems from this post at least, that you do not.***John says:
You are technically correct. I can't argue that. It just seems that you'd choose a word less likely to cause misunderstanding.***I admit to the expectation of reason and understanding within those to whom I may choose to reply. This, unfortunately, is not always the case. As a youth, one of the many principles greatly impressed upon me was the necessity of developing a great power of reason. I can thank my father, and my grandfather, for that. Perhaps, at times, I require and expect too much from some individuals. The power of reason is not an automatic consequence of physical maturity. Some, like myself, have worked at truly developing it, and others have not. Mores the pity!*** Shalom Jet------------------
As we survey all the evidence, the thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency - or, rather, Agency - must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially crafted the cosmos for our benefit?Prof. George Greenstei

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Originally posted by Jet:
***I agree! Unfortunately, many EVOs abandon this line of reasoning when it comes to "definition".***

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I don't see this in evolutionary science. Of course, humans being human there are going to mistakes, slips of the tongue, whatever, and there are outright deception at times. As long as these errors are corrected, no big deal. Short of our becoming infallible, this is the best we can do. What I don't see is intentional equivocation on a grand scale.

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The power of reason is not an automatic consequence of physical maturity.

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Yeah, no kidding.------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com

Peter says:
In the context within which you used them, I cannot see any different
content ... and asked you to elaborate that difference.You haven't ... you have provided isolated dictionary defintions ...
selected out of the large number of possible definitions for each
word.This leads me back to the topic of this thread.You have found debate and differing opinions over two, very simple
looking phrases.How then can you claim the Bible as fact, when it contains much more
complex textual content, which itself has been translated across
many languages (not to mention blatantly changed for
political ends).

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***Aside from simply stating your personal opinion on specific matters, matters with which I happen to disagree, you simply recycle an already answered question, the answer to which, you either did not, or could not understand and/or accept. So allow me to clarify my position as to my expectations when discussing and debating with others. For your convienence, I have chosen to cut-n-paste rather than refer you to the post in which this statement originates."I admit to the expectation of reason and understanding within those to whom I may choose to reply. This, unfortunately, is not always the case. As a youth, one of the many principles greatly impressed upon me was the necessity of developing a great power of reason. I can thank my father, and my grandfather, for that. Perhaps, at times, I require and expect too much from some individuals. The power of reason is not an automatic consequence of physical maturity. Some, like myself, have worked at truly developing the power of reason, and others have not. Mores the pity!"If the reply that I gave was not satisfactory for you, then I am sorry. The above statement is a reasonable expectation. For those who cannot meet that expectation, I suggest they refrain from responding to my posts with the expectation of receiving a reply. TURN THE PAGE! Shalom Jet------------------
As we survey all the evidence, the thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency - or, rather, Agency - must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially crafted the cosmos for our benefit?Prof. George Greenstein[Fixed too long line of asterisks. --Percy]

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[This message has been edited by Percipient, 06-13-2002]

John says:
Of course, humans being human there are going to mistakes, slips of the tongue, whatever, and there are outright deception at times.......What I don't see is intentional equivocation on a grand scale.***Beauty, or rather in this case, Honesty, is in the eye of the beholder. Agreement to disagree is a cornerstone of debate.*** Shalom Jet------------------
As we survey all the evidence, the thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency - or, rather, Agency - must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially crafted the cosmos for our benefit?Prof. George Greenstei

Hi Jet!When you include a long line of asterisks in a message (or any large number of consecutive characters with no spaces) then it prevents the browser from displaying the page any narrower than the width of that line, causing the need for horizontal scrolling. Instead of a line of asterisks could I suggest that you instead use the HTML horizontal rule:

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Thanks!--Percy
   EvC Forum Administrator

Jet writes:

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"I admit to the expectation of reason and understanding within those to whom I may choose to reply. This, unfortunately, is not always the case. As a youth, one of the many principles greatly impressed upon me was the necessity of developing a great power of reason. I can thank my father, and my grandfather, for that. Perhaps, at times, I require and expect too much from some individuals. The power of reason is not an automatic consequence of physical maturity. Some, like myself, have worked at truly developing the power of reason, and others have not. Mores the pity!"

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So your answer to Peter's point that the dictionary definitions you supplied don't fit the context is that you have greater reasoning powers?Sheesh!--Percy

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Originally posted by Jet:
John says:
***Beauty, or rather in this case, Honesty, is in the eye of the beholder. Agreement to disagree is a cornerstone of debate.***

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Sad that I can't get any of that debate out of you. Do you really think cookie-cutter quips and flippant dismissals count as discussion?------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com

Percy says:
So your answer to Peter's point that the dictionary definitions you supplied don't fit the context is that you have greater reasoning powers?***You seem to have a fondness for putting words into peoples' mouths. Perhaps you would do well to simply take a statement at face value, thereby avoiding spurious interpretations of what you assume someone means. Or perhaps this is merely one of the debating tactics learned in EVO 101?
Things that make you go Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!***------------------
As we survey all the evidence, the thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency - or, rather, Agency - must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially crafted the cosmos for our benefit?Prof. George Greenstei