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Author Topic:   Pick and Choose Fundamentalism
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 297 of 384 (515879)
07-22-2009 2:26 AM
Reply to: Message 296 by themasterdebator
07-22-2009 1:36 AM


Re: same old
Hi master,
themasterdebator writes:
This is probably the most popular reason for repenting. Why do you think preachers commonly threaten people with hell/non-entry to heaven if they do not repent their wicked ways? Even Jesus uses the tactic occasionally when threatening the wicked. It should most definitely be a legitimate reason to repent when even Jesus attempts to get people to repent by these means.
It does not make any difference what preachers threaten people with.
By one man sin entered into the world bringing death and separation from fellowship with God.
John 3:18 says mankind is condemned already because he has not believed, it gives no other reason.
So mankind is already condemned and does not have much of a choice. If he does nothing he will spend eternity in the lake of fire. But he could choose to accept the free full pardon offered by God.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by themasterdebator, posted 07-22-2009 1:36 AM themasterdebator has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 329 of 384 (516224)
07-24-2009 7:00 AM
Reply to: Message 326 by Brian
07-24-2009 6:25 AM


Re: Double standards?
Hi Brian,
Brian writes:
they didnt flee
According to the Bible they did.
Unless your cult's ()Bible is different from everyone elses?
My cult's Bible says:
12:30 And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead.
12:31 And he called for Moses and Aaron by night, and said, Rise up, and get you forth from among my people, both ye and the children of Israel; and go, serve the LORD, as ye have said.
12:32 Also take your flocks and your herds, as ye have said, and be gone; and bless me also.
12:33 And the Egyptians were urgent upon the people, that they might send them out of the land in haste; for they said, We be all dead men.
12:34 And the people took their dough before it was leavened, their kneadingtroughs being bound up in their clothes upon their shoulders.
12:35 And the children of Israel did according to the word of Moses; and they borrowed of the Egyptians jewels of silver, and jewels of gold, and raiment:
12:36 And the LORD gave the people favor in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they lent unto them such things as they required. And they spoiled the Egyptians.
Seems like they got run out of Egypt according to this account.
Bod Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 326 by Brian, posted 07-24-2009 6:25 AM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 331 by Brian, posted 07-24-2009 10:14 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 334 of 384 (516354)
07-24-2009 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 331 by Brian
07-24-2009 10:14 AM


Re: 3 day journey
Hi Brian,
Brian writes:
Perosnally, I think that your reference could be to the request to pharaoh by the elders and Moses to have a 3 day festival in the desert dedicated to Yahweh.
No doubt about it. That is what Moses had requested.
Brian writes:
I think that pharaoh gave Moses and Aaron permission to take every Israelite into the desert for 3 days to worship and AFTER they had left I think the pharaoh realised he had been conned, and this is why he sent his armies after the Israelites.
You were doing OK until you started to think.
So what was the reason for Exodus 12:31?
12:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt saying,
12:2 This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.
12:3 Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house:
12:4 And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbor next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb.
12:5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:
12:6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
12:7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
12:8 And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.
12:9 Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof.
12:10 And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire.
12:11 And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the LORD's passover.
12:12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.
12:21 Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover.
12:22 And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the basin, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the basin; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning.
12:23 For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.
12:28 And the children of Israel went away, and did as the LORD had commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they.
12:29 And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.
The people had from 3:22 to borrow things or at least ask to borrow things from the Egyptians.
According to 12:2, 3, 6, The children of Israel had a minimum of 4 days and a possibility of 14 days notice of their departure date.
Exodus 12:11 tells us they were to be fully clothed with their shoes on, staff in hand. Which meant be ready to go.
Verse 29 tells us that at midnight every family and beast in Egypt lost their firstborn, from Pharaoh on down.
The only ones spared was those that had the blood applied to the door posts. 12:22, 23.
12:30 And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead.
12:31 And he called for Moses and Aaron by night, and said, Rise up, and get you forth from among my people, both ye and the children of Israel; and go, serve the LORD, as ye have said.
12:32 Also take your flocks and your herds, as ye have said, and be gone; and bless me also.
At midnight Pharoah's firstborn died.
He went and found Moses and Aaron and said take your flocks and herds and be gone.
Why would he say, take your flocks and your herds, and be gone, If they were to be gone only 3 days? He had decided that it was better for Egypt if they were gone permanently.
Brian writes:
This hypothesis would account for the obvious contradictions in the texts.
The onlly contradictions are the ones you have manafactured in your mind while thinking, instead of examining the scriptures.
Brian writes:
They even had time to arm themselves and to go collect the bones of Joseph:
They had a long time to get ready for the journey. Close to 400 years.
But on the immediate timeframe they had at least a couple of months and maybe more. So no they did not have to go dig up his bones they had them packed and ready to go from Joseph's death.
Brian writes:
At Exodus 14:5 we find:
When the king of Egypt was told that the people had fled, Pharaoh and his officials changed their minds about them and said, "What have we done? We have let the Israelites go and have lost their services!"
This tradition tells us that the Israelites had fled, and without pharaoh's knowledge!
The word fled, Hebrew (barach) definition:
1) to go through, flee, run away, chase, drive away, put to flight, reach, shoot (extend), hurry away
Compare too: Exodus 14:27:
14:27 And Moses stretched forth his hand over the sea, and the sea returned to his strength when the morning appeared; and the Egyptians fled against it; and the LORD overthrew the Egyptians in the midst of the sea.
The word fled, Hebrew (nuwc) definition:
1) to flee, escape
You are saying the Israelites nuwc. When that is not what the writer said.
The writer did know the difference because he use one in verse 5 and just 22 verses later he used the other.
Brian writes:
The titles 'pharaoh' in 12:31 and 'King of Egypt' 14:5 is just one clue that these are different traditions.
Exodus 12:31 Pharaoh, Hebrew (Par`oh) definition:
1) the common title of the king of Egypt
Exodus 14:5 'King of Egypt', Hebrew (melek) definition:
1) king
Also in verse 5 notice whose changed their mind. The head honcho, Pharaoh and his officials.
They had several days to get over the death of the firstborn and looked at the labor force they were losing and decided to go get them back.
Which turned out to be as bad a disaster as the firstborn of every family dying.
Brian writes:
But, as far as this argument goes, Exodus 14 tells us that the Israelites fled from Egypt.
Only in your mind not in the text.
Brian writes:
And, to be pedantic, I would imagine that the Israelites did flee from pharaoh's armies.
They had flocks, cattle, children, men and women. At best a sustained speed of 2 miles per hr. So yes they were really fleeing, that is the reason they railed on Moses and said:
14:10 And when Pharaoh drew nigh, the children of Israel lifted up their eyes, and, behold, the Egyptians marched after them; and they were sore afraid: and the children of Israel cried out unto the LORD.
14:11 And they said unto Moses, Because there were no graves in Egypt, hast thou taken us away to die in the wilderness? wherefore hast thou dealt thus with us, to carry us forth out of Egypt?
14:12 Is not this the word that we did tell thee in Egypt, saying, Let us alone, that we may serve the Egyptians? For it had been better for us to serve the Egyptians, than that we should die in the wilderness.
When they saw the Egyptians they really put it in high gear. Opp's they were camped at the red sea.
Now you just ignore all the evidence and go on believing all those little lies you have told yourself over the years.
But there are no contradictions.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 331 by Brian, posted 07-24-2009 10:14 AM Brian has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 335 by Mothership, posted 07-25-2009 12:33 AM ICANT has not replied

  
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