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Author Topic:   Pick and Choose Fundamentalism
Peg
Member (Idle past 4930 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 361 of 384 (518045)
08-03-2009 8:51 PM
Reply to: Message 359 by Taz
08-03-2009 2:43 PM


Re: Less logical than I thought
Taz writes:
Several people asked you this already but you've decided to LIE your way out by dodging and ignoring us. So, let me ask you again and don't LIE this time.
If a group of people come to your country, you know, the land where your forefathers established their civilization and passed it down through the generations to you, and told you to get up and leave because their god had given this land to them, would you get up and leave?
if I was a cannanite and I knew of the isrealites and their God, I would definitely ask to join them rather then war with them.
If an opposing army invaded my country today, I would stay out of their way. If my country chose to fight them, i think I would flee to neutral territory.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 359 by Taz, posted 08-03-2009 2:43 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 362 by Taz, posted 08-03-2009 9:18 PM Peg has not replied
 Message 369 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 08-05-2009 7:07 AM Peg has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 362 of 384 (518052)
08-03-2009 9:18 PM
Reply to: Message 361 by Peg
08-03-2009 8:51 PM


Re: Less logical than I thought
Peg writes:
If an opposing army invaded my country today, I would stay out of their way. If my country chose to fight them, i think I would flee to neutral territory.
Muhahahahahahaha.
And ladies and gentlemen of the internet, I rest my case.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 361 by Peg, posted 08-03-2009 8:51 PM Peg has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 363 by anglagard, posted 08-03-2009 11:04 PM Taz has not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 837 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 363 of 384 (518074)
08-03-2009 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 362 by Taz
08-03-2009 9:18 PM


Cowardice by any Name
Peg writes:
Peg writes:
If an opposing army invaded my country today, I would stay out of their way. If my country chose to fight them, i think I would flee to neutral territory.
Taz writes:
Muhahahahahahaha.
And ladies and gentlemen of the internet, I rest my case.
Some things are not worth fighting for because they are inherently wrong. Evidently Peg's ideals, which include a corruption of Christianity through pick and choose fundamentalism, a desperate hatred of all knowledge, especially science, and a contempt for the enlightenment and it's subsequent products, democracy and reason, are considered unworthy of personal sacrifice.
If one does not have the guts to fight for and even die for their beliefs, then one has no real soul. Instead they are just a shill for some guru.
I think it is important to point out that there are several active duty posters, as well as veterans. All put their life on the line either now or at some time in the past to support the ideals of democracy and rationality as opposed to militant and murderous nationalism (see WW2), bullshit communism that was actually feudalism, and psycho child murderers, known as suicide bombers of another example of perverting a religion.
I hope that Peg can place her ego in perspective, be it her religion or just admitting to being a fallible human in general. So far she can't ever admit any error even when it is blatantly obvious, such as in the huge amount of energy falsehood it takes to turn hydrogen and oxygen to water. So much for being a witness or evangelizing, the self-proclaimed infallible ego is above the made up and lied about, made by false pride, false Christian god of the self-ignorant followers of Nietzsche instead of the humility induced by Bonhoeffer or Spinoza, or even the most importantly, kick ass NT Jesus.
Some people just can't handle the truth for selfish reasons, or even understand the concept of a metaphor.
Indeed, I rest my case as well.

The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman Rushdie
This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 362 by Taz, posted 08-03-2009 9:18 PM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 364 by Peg, posted 08-04-2009 12:01 AM anglagard has not replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4930 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 364 of 384 (518090)
08-04-2009 12:01 AM
Reply to: Message 363 by anglagard
08-03-2009 11:04 PM


Re: Cowardice by any Name
anglagard writes:
If one does not have the guts to fight for and even die for their beliefs, then one has no real soul. Instead they are just a shill for some guru.
to the contrary, the bible tells us NOT to fight our enemies.
if we really trust in God, then we will not get involved in the wars of our countries and patiently wait for him to correct all matters.
Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 363 by anglagard, posted 08-03-2009 11:04 PM anglagard has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 365 by bluescat48, posted 08-04-2009 8:14 AM Peg has replied
 Message 370 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 08-05-2009 7:22 AM Peg has replied

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4190 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 365 of 384 (518140)
08-04-2009 8:14 AM
Reply to: Message 364 by Peg
08-04-2009 12:01 AM


Re: Cowardice by any Name
to the contrary, the bible tells us NOT to fight our enemies.
Your God speaks with forked tongue. If the above quote is correct then explain why he ordered the Israelites to destroy the Canaanites.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 364 by Peg, posted 08-04-2009 12:01 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 366 by Peg, posted 08-05-2009 4:00 AM bluescat48 has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4930 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 366 of 384 (518293)
08-05-2009 4:00 AM
Reply to: Message 365 by bluescat48
08-04-2009 8:14 AM


Re: Cowardice by any Name
bluescat48 writes:
Your God speaks with forked tongue. If the above quote is correct then explain why he ordered the Israelites to destroy the Canaanites.
he has the ultimate authority
and life is a gift, its not a right. The cannanites who chose to war with Isreal showed a complete lack of respect for Gods ownership of the land they inhabited. They knew the land was an inheritance for the Isrealites, they refused to hand it over therefore they had taken something that did not belong to them.
God corrected matters. He is the ultimate authority and the one who has the final say.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 365 by bluescat48, posted 08-04-2009 8:14 AM bluescat48 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 367 by bluescat48, posted 08-05-2009 6:17 AM Peg has replied
 Message 368 by Coragyps, posted 08-05-2009 6:37 AM Peg has not replied

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4190 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 367 of 384 (518306)
08-05-2009 6:17 AM
Reply to: Message 366 by Peg
08-05-2009 4:00 AM


Re: Cowardice by any Name
They knew the land was an inheritance for the Isrealites, they refused to hand it over therefore they had taken something that did not belong to them.
How did they know this when "God" only revealed himself to Israel?

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 366 by Peg, posted 08-05-2009 4:00 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 376 by Peg, posted 08-06-2009 3:08 AM bluescat48 has replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 368 of 384 (518309)
08-05-2009 6:37 AM
Reply to: Message 366 by Peg
08-05-2009 4:00 AM


Re: Cowardice by any Name
And the aboriginal people of Australia and of the US knew full well that those English-speaking immagrants had that same God's permission to slaughter them like rats in a granery.
That's digusting, Peg. For your sake, I hope the New Zealanders don't come up with a piece of paper that says God told them Oz belongs to Kiwis. Only your young daughters might survive that holocaust.

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

This message is a reply to:
 Message 366 by Peg, posted 08-05-2009 4:00 AM Peg has not replied

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3101 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 369 of 384 (518312)
08-05-2009 7:07 AM
Reply to: Message 361 by Peg
08-03-2009 8:51 PM


Re: Less logical than I thought
Peg writes:
If an opposing army invaded my country today, I would stay out of their way. If my country chose to fight them, i think I would flee to neutral territory.
It is people like you who would allow, condone and advocate the attrocities and genocide such as the Hitler's Holocaust, the Khmer Rouge, Darfur, Rwanda, Japanes concentration camps and death marches during WWII, Mao's and Stalin's ethnicidal rampages and other attrocities to occur unchecked.
So if you were in Europe you would do nothing to try to put up a resistance against Hitler and his goon squad? You would probably corroborate with him and bend over as Vichy France did, right? While tens of millions of men, women and children were needlessly TORTURED AND MURDERED!!
You are a morally bankrupt and dispicable person. I pity you and your family. I really feel sorry for your children. It is sad they will grow up knowing there parents are such cowards that they would choose to run and hide while the rest of there countryman would die to protect there freedoms that they indulge in.
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

"In the beginning, the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people mad and been widely regarded as a bad idea."
Douglas Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 361 by Peg, posted 08-03-2009 8:51 PM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 372 by Peg, posted 08-06-2009 2:36 AM DevilsAdvocate has not replied

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3101 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 370 of 384 (518314)
08-05-2009 7:22 AM
Reply to: Message 364 by Peg
08-04-2009 12:01 AM


Re: Cowardice by any Name
Peg writes:
to the contrary, the bible tells us NOT to fight our enemies.
What!?!
You have been arguing with me for the last 10 pages about the justification the Israelites had for battling their 'enemies', the Canaanites in the Bible. Now you are telling me that the Bible says they should not have fought them?
This is beyond cognitive dissonance. You are bat-shit, crazy!!!
Also how does the following verses fit into your Biblical philosophy:
Luke 22:36-38 writes:
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.
What were they going to use there swords for? Catching fish?
Matthew 10:34-35 writes:
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Should I mention all the violence commanded by God in the OT? Or have we gone over that enough.
The Bible is anything but a book advocating peace.
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

This message is a reply to:
 Message 364 by Peg, posted 08-04-2009 12:01 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 373 by Peg, posted 08-06-2009 2:38 AM DevilsAdvocate has not replied

  
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3238 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 371 of 384 (518388)
08-05-2009 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 360 by Peg
08-03-2009 8:46 PM


Re: Less logical than I thought
Had he allowed them to eat from it, they could have lived indefinitely.
Ok, so they weren't created to live forever, God just placed the possibility somewhere in the Garden, but didn't tell them about it until they disobeyed, and he only told them about it to illustrate the fact that they were now cut off from it.
So, in otherwords, Adam and Eve would have died anyway had they not stumbled upon the Tree of Life and decided to eat of it. So, again, how exactly did God kill Adam for eating of the Tree of Knowledge if Adam was going to die anyway, barring his eating from a particular tree. The best you could say is that God removed the merest possibility of living forever, but definitely did not kill Adam or Eve.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 360 by Peg, posted 08-03-2009 8:46 PM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 374 by Peg, posted 08-06-2009 2:46 AM Perdition has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4930 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 372 of 384 (518433)
08-06-2009 2:36 AM
Reply to: Message 369 by DevilsAdvocate
08-05-2009 7:07 AM


Re: Less logical than I thought
DevilsAdvocate writes:
So if you were in Europe you would do nothing to try to put up a resistance against Hitler and his goon squad?
perhaps you need to learn a little about the purple triangles...you'll see that resistance does not always equate to taking up arms.
Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 369 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 08-05-2009 7:07 AM DevilsAdvocate has not replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4930 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 373 of 384 (518434)
08-06-2009 2:38 AM
Reply to: Message 370 by DevilsAdvocate
08-05-2009 7:22 AM


Re: Cowardice by any Name
DevilsAdvocate writes:
You have been arguing with me for the last 10 pages about the justification the Israelites had for battling their 'enemies', the Canaanites in the Bible. Now you are telling me that the Bible says they should not have fought them?
christianity and judaism are completely different things, obviously.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 370 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 08-05-2009 7:22 AM DevilsAdvocate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 375 by anglagard, posted 08-06-2009 3:03 AM Peg has replied
 Message 377 by anglagard, posted 08-06-2009 3:10 AM Peg has not replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4930 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 374 of 384 (518435)
08-06-2009 2:46 AM
Reply to: Message 371 by Perdition
08-05-2009 4:30 PM


Re: Less logical than I thought
Perdition writes:
So, in otherwords, Adam and Eve would have died anyway had they not stumbled upon the Tree of Life and decided to eat of it. So, again, how exactly did God kill Adam for eating of the Tree of Knowledge if Adam was going to die anyway, barring his eating from a particular tree. The best you could say is that God removed the merest possibility of living forever, but definitely did not kill Adam or Eve.
the tree of life was a representation of everlasting life, not a literal life giving tree. Everlasting life could be obtained as long as they remained in the Garden as subjects of God. But when they were removed from the garden, they no longer had everlasting life as a prospect.
Just as the tree of knowledge was a representation of Gods rultership...as long as they obeyed the command to stay away from that tree, they remained subject to Gods rule. When they disobeyed, they no longer were subject to Gods rule, they were independent.
So he did kill them in that he allowed them to die.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 371 by Perdition, posted 08-05-2009 4:30 PM Perdition has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 381 by Perdition, posted 08-06-2009 9:24 AM Peg has replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 837 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 375 of 384 (518437)
08-06-2009 3:03 AM
Reply to: Message 373 by Peg
08-06-2009 2:38 AM


Re: Cowardice by any Name
Peg writes:
christianity and judaism are completely different things, obviously.
It does not appear so obvious if some forms of Christianity emphasize the OT over the NT, such as when those forms deny all science, democracy, and any questioning of 'authority' in general.
It is unfortunate that so many so called "Christians" who have totally misinterpreted the OT still refuse to ask a Jew what the actual meaning of the text may be. However it is not surprising given that the self-proclaimed 'saved' believe the primary purpose of life is to be smug, condescending, or at worst 'beyond good and evil' as such that any immoral behavior is allowed due to viewing all others as less than human.
Not that you would be guilty of any of these infractions, of course.

The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman Rushdie
This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 373 by Peg, posted 08-06-2009 2:38 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 378 by Peg, posted 08-06-2009 3:17 AM anglagard has not replied

  
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