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Author Topic:   Genesis 1 vs. Genesis 2
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 136 of 149 (149058)
10-11-2004 5:26 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by arachnophilia
10-11-2004 3:48 AM


Arachnophilia writes:
quote:
um, actually. yes. and it's well accepted in the academic community that shakespeare plaigarized. turns out he just wrote great poetry and prose in his plays, not the plots themselves. the plot he borrowed from other sources. i cited one above, "hamlet" by kyd.
similarly, "the lion king" is great animation, but the plot was lifted from shakespeare's version of hamlet.
It has been a thought of mine to convince a repertory company to do the multi-form versions of a single plot. For example, Pygmalion and My Fair Lady, Romeo and Juliet and West Side Story, Arms and the Man and The Chocolate Soldier, The Taming of the Shrew and Kiss Me, Kate.
It is hard to write an original story. The good plots are recycled over and over precisely because they are good plots.

Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by arachnophilia, posted 10-11-2004 3:48 AM arachnophilia has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 137 of 149 (149062)
10-11-2004 6:03 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by JasonChin
10-11-2004 5:03 AM


JasonChin responds to me:
quote:
quote:
What do you think the word "inerrant" means?
Not the same as "literal".........at least, not the way I use it.
OK...so now we know what you think it isn't. Would you mind actually answering my question and tell me what you think it is?
quote:
And I don't believe in a strictly literal Biblical creation.
Then what, pray tell, are you defending? If the stories aren't supposed to be connected to anything real, what does it matter if they contradict each other?
quote:
quote:
But the thing is, this isn't like the various stories told by Jesus where he says that it's a story that isn't true but is simply told to make a point. It purports to be the actual way things happened.
But it's clearly a joke
No, it isn't a joke. It's quite serious. It describes the relationship between god and his creation. That is quite serious. There is a difference between "not taken literally" and "a joke."
quote:
quote:
And you need to fix your formatting. Read the instructions on how to format a post, please. You said you would, but you clearly did not. There are two general methods
......that's not how I roll, yo.
So basically, your a jerk.
The Administrator asked you nicely to fix your formatting. Two others asked you nicely to fix your formatting. This is a written forum where being able to easily distinguish among various speakers is important. If you make your posts difficult to read due to poor formatting, lack of attention to grammar and spelling, etc., you run the risk of having your posts completely ignored. Nobody is saying you have to be perfect, but your recalcitrance to make things easier for your fellows is quite telling. It takes two seconds out of your life to make everybody else's life easier. Why wouldn't you want to do that?
Get over yourself.

Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by JasonChin, posted 10-11-2004 5:03 AM JasonChin has not replied

Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 138 of 149 (149063)
10-11-2004 6:09 AM
Reply to: Message 134 by JasonChin
10-11-2004 5:20 AM


Re: Minor?
JasonChin responds to me:
quote:
Shakespeare was never as venerated as the OT was by the Jews, because while Shakespeare is just really good art, the OT was the SOLE source of ancient Jews for both history and theology.
And Shakespeare wasn't history and morality to the Elizabethans? Shakespeare pretty much wrote the common man's understanding of English kings with his History plays. Given his influence on the language, you cannot help but describe things in Shakespearean terms.
True, nobody thinks Shakespeare was god. But you cannot be a person who natively speaks English and not have a connection to Shakespeare. He is that important.

Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by JasonChin, posted 10-11-2004 5:20 AM JasonChin has not replied

Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 139 of 149 (149065)
10-11-2004 6:22 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by JasonChin
10-11-2004 5:25 AM


JasonChin responds to Arachnophilia:
quote:
quote:
either the flood covered the whole earth, and killed everything but the contents of the ark, or the bible is errant.
Not true. If civilization ended, we'd refer to it as the "end of the world"
But that isn't what the Bible says:
Genesis 7:24: And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.
It isn't talking about just the local area. It is talking about the entire world. Remember, the Bible dates the flood to about 2250 BCE. There were plenty of other civilizations that were present at the time (Egypt, Greece, China), and none of them seem to have noticed that everybody died.
So when the Bible talks about the whole earth being flooded, it isn't speaking the truth.
Genesis 6:13: And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
Genesis 6:17: And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
Genesis 7:22: All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
7:23: And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
This flood can't be a local event...the Bible clearly states that all life on earth is going to die except for Noah and those with him.
But not all life on the earth died except for Noah and those with him. Therefore, either this story is not true. There was no global flood.
quote:
because you make these bold, sweeping statements because maybe a transcriptionist somewhere along the lines goofed and wrote (in relation to which came first, man or animal) "and then God created animals" instead of "and that's why God created animals".
(*blink!*)
You did not just say that, did you?
The contradictions in the Bible are not the result of misplacing a comma here and there. The contradictions in the descriptions of creation in Gen 1 and Gen 2 cannot be rectified simply by changing a verb tense.
Besides, Gen 2 says precisely why god created animals: To find a helpmeet for Adam:
Genesis 2:18: And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
2:19: And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
2:20: And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
Now, please explain to me how it is we can find a helpmeet for Adam when there isn't an Adam to find a helpmeet for? If the purpose of the creation of animals is to find a helpmeet for Adam as Gen 2 says, why on earth were animals created BEFORE the first humans as explicitly described in Gen 1?
This isn't a copy editing mistake. This is a plot shift. Which one is it? Were animals created before or after the first human?
quote:
This is how I know that atheists are no less influenced by personal belief than theists
When was it decided that anybody was an atheist? Surely you aren't arguing that because we don't believe in your god, that means we don't believe in any god, are you?
quote:
quote:
because "as a record of history, it fails brilliantly."
Which only makes sense for the parts that are intended as allegorical
And which ones are those? Do you have a list? Perhaps you could publish a version of the Bible that color-codes those parts that aren't supposed to be taken literally in order to break the confusion of those who think the whole thing is literally true.

Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by JasonChin, posted 10-11-2004 5:25 AM JasonChin has not replied

Replies to this message:
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BobAliceEve
Member (Idle past 5473 days)
Posts: 107
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Joined: 02-03-2004


Message 140 of 149 (149067)
10-11-2004 6:36 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by Rrhain
10-11-2004 1:08 AM


Re: No contradiction
rrhain responds appropriately with
quote:
True, but if one set of plans says "Wiring on Tuesday, Ducts on Wednesday," and another set of plans says, "Ducts on Tuesday, Wiring on Wednesday," then which one is the actual set of plans? They obviously contradict each other.
I help build airplanes. On an imaginary project we design the body in 1Q 2003 (the first "day" of design), We design the wings in 2Q 2003 (the second "day" of design). We design the engines 3Q 2003 (the third "day" of the design). We design the interior 4Q 2003 (the fourth "day" of design).
When the design was complete we build the plane. We build and test the engines on the first manufacturing "day". We build the wings on the second manufacturing "day". We build the body on the third manufacturing "day". We build the interior on the fourth manufacturing "day".
This is an example of what I mean. The design days are in a different order than the manufacturing days. Possibly this will clarify my point.
As always, thank you all for your reading,
BAE

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1421 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 141 of 149 (149068)
10-11-2004 6:37 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by JasonChin
10-11-2004 5:25 AM


Not true. If civilization ended, we'd refer to it as the "end of the world".........when, in fact, the world would still very much be here.
the flood is in genesis 6. other cultures don't arise until genesis 11. the civilization that noah lives in, according to genesis, is the ONLY one.
This is how I know that atheists are no less influenced by personal belief than theists........
where did i say i was athiest? because i read the bible differently than you do? i happen to be a christian, thankyouverymuch.
because you make these bold, sweeping statements because maybe a transcriptionist somewhere along the lines goofed and wrote (in relation to which came first, man or animal) "and then God created animals" instead of "and that's why God created animals".
have you read genesis? it's not a laundry list, where someone "goofed" and wrote the stories in slightly different orders. the two stories are fundamentally different. it's a point of PLOT for genesis 2 that man is alone, and so god creates animals and then woman for him. that's the WHOLE STORY not a line or two.
because "as a record of history, it fails brilliantly.">>
Which only makes sense for the parts that are intended as allegorical.........
but some parts are literally history? well, nothing in genesis. we can pretty much rule out the rest of the torah too. where should we pick it up? samuel? kings? even these books have directed focus. there are whole wars recorded by neighbors who fought the hebrews that these books leave out because they don't favor the view of the book. for instance, kings loves jehu, because he gets rid of the rebelious dynasty before him.
here's a picture of king jehu kissing the feet of shalmanessar iii of assyria. please point out where this is recorded in the bible. also, please point out where it records the victory of his predecessor over shalmanessar. i sure can't find anywhere.
good history? or biased distortions for a specific purpose?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by JasonChin, posted 10-11-2004 5:25 AM JasonChin has not replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1421 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 142 of 149 (149070)
10-11-2004 6:42 AM
Reply to: Message 140 by BobAliceEve
10-11-2004 6:36 AM


Re: No contradiction
I help build airplanes. On an imaginary project we design the body in 1Q 2003 (the first "day" of design), We design the wings in 2Q 2003 (the second "day" of design). We design the engines 3Q 2003 (the third "day" of the design). We design the interior 4Q 2003 (the fourth "day" of design).
When the design was complete we build the plane. We build and test the engines on the first manufacturing "day". We build the wings on the second manufacturing "day". We build the body on the third manufacturing "day". We build the interior on the fourth manufacturing "day".
This is an example of what I mean. The design days are in a different order than the manufacturing days. Possibly this will clarify my point.
but would you phrase it as though you built the airplane the first time around? you'd say "designed" just like you did. the bible doesn't do this, it says created in chapter one, and created in chapter two. god not only speaks his plan in first story, but the earth follows suit.
quote:
Design:
Gen 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, [and] the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed [is] in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
quote:
Manufacture:
Gen 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, [and] herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed [was] in itself, after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.
the second story describes creation AGAIN
quote:
Gen 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by BobAliceEve, posted 10-11-2004 6:36 AM BobAliceEve has not replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1421 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 143 of 149 (149072)
10-11-2004 6:48 AM
Reply to: Message 139 by Rrhain
10-11-2004 6:22 AM


The contradictions in the Bible are not the result of misplacing a comma here and there. The contradictions in the descriptions of creation in Gen 1 and Gen 2 cannot be rectified simply by changing a verb tense.
actually, i've seen a problem or two that's turned out to be a typo, scribal error, or editting of the text. btu the examples are pretty rare -- this is not one of them.
When was it decided that anybody was an atheist? Surely you aren't arguing that because we don't believe in your god, that means we don't believe in any god, are you?
i should probably take more insult to his statement than i did. i am not an athiest, i just believe in a sensible way to read the bible. i fully believe in god, just not always the books his followers write.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Rrhain, posted 10-11-2004 6:22 AM Rrhain has not replied

AdminAsgara
Administrator (Idle past 2380 days)
Posts: 2073
From: The Universe
Joined: 10-11-2003


Message 144 of 149 (149132)
10-11-2004 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by JasonChin
10-11-2004 5:03 AM


Yo, you will roll that way at my suggestion or you might lose the ability to post here at all. I do NOT want to take that route but deliberate flouting of my authority is not the way to win friends around here.
Please READ AND FOLLOW the tips on this
Assistance w/ Forum Formatting
Utilize the quote features or risk suspension.

AdminAsgara
Queen of the Universe


http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

This message is a reply to:
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Brian
Member (Idle past 5037 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 145 of 149 (149139)
10-11-2004 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by arachnophilia
10-11-2004 5:19 AM


HI Arach,
I typed up the two intermingled flood narratives a while back, maybe some members would be interested in seeing it.
Maybe Jason will see the composite nature of the texts.
In Who Wrote the Bible? by Richard Elliot Friedman, Jonathan Cape, London, 1988. The two different flood narratives have been highlighted in order for the reader to read the different accounts for themselves.
An interesting exercise is to copy and paste the passages that are in different type faces from the text below, paste them into different documents, and then read the two separate stories for yourself.
The J source, or Yawhist, is in regular type. The Priestly source is in capital letters and bold face.
GENESIS 6:
5 And Yahweh saw that the evil of humans was great in the earth, and all the inclination of the thoughts of their heart was only evil all the day.
6 And Yahweh regretted that he had made humans in the earth, and he was grieved to his heart.
7 And Yahweh said, "I shall wipe out the humans which I have created from the face of the earth, from human to beast to creeping thing to bird of the heavens, for I regret that I have made them."
8 But Noah found favor in Yahweh's eyes.
9 THESE ARE THE GENERATIONS OF NOAH: NOAH WAS A RIGHTEOUS MAN, PERFECT IN HIS GENERATIONS. NOAH WALKED WITH GOD.
10 AND NOAH SIRED THREE SONS: SHEM, HAM, AND JAPHETH.
11 AND THE EARTH WAS CORRUPTED BEFORE GOD, AND THE EARTH WAS FILLED WITH VIOLENCE.
12 AND GOD SAW THE EARTH, AND HERE IT WAS CORRUPTED, FOR ALL FLESH HAD CORRUPTED ITS WAY ON THE EARTH
13 AND GOD SAID TO NOAH, "THE END OF ALL FLESH HAS COME BEFORE ME, FOR THE EARTH IS FILLED WITH VIOLENCE BECAUSE OF THEM, AND HERE I AM GOING TO DESTROY THEM WITH THE EARTH.
14 MAKE YOURSELF AN ARK OF GOPHER WOOD, MAKE ROOMS WITH THE ARK, AND PITCH IT OUTSIDE AND INSIDE WITH PITCH.
15 AND THIS IS HOW YOU SHALL MAKE IT: THREE HUNDRED CUBITS THE LENGTH OF THE ARK, FIFTY CUBITS ITS WIDTH, AND THIRTY CUBITS ITS HEIGHT.
16 YOU SHALL MAKE A WINDOW FOR THE ARK, AND YOU SHALL FINISH IT TO A CUBIT FROM THE TOP, AND YOU SHALL MAKE AN ENTRANCE TO THE ARK IN ITS SIDE. YOU SHALL MAKE LOWER, SECOND, AND THIRD STORIES FOR IT.
17 AND HERE I AM BRINGING THE FLOOD, WATER OVER THE EARTH, TO DESTROY ALL FLESH IN WHICH IS THE BREATH OF LIFE FROM UNDER THE HEAVENS. EVERYTHING WHICH IS ON THE LAND WILL DIE.
18 AND I SHALL ESTABLISH MY COVENANT WITH YOU. AND YOU SHALL COME TO THE ARK, YOU AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR WIFE AND YOUR SONS' WIVES WITH YOU.
19 AND OF ALL THE LIVING, OF ALL FLESH, YOU SHALL BRING TWO TO THE ARK TO KEEP ALIVE WITH YOU, THEY SHALL BE MALE AND FEMALE.
20 OF THE BIRDS ACCORDING TO THEIR KIND, AND OF THE BEASTS ACCORDING TO THEIR KIND, AND OF ALL THE CREEPING THINGS OF THE EARTH ACCORDING TO THEIR KIND, TWO OF EACH WILL COME TO YOU TO KEEP ALIVE.
21 AND YOU, TAKE FOR YOURSELF OF ALL FOOD WHICH WILL BE EATEN AND GATHER IT TO YOU, AND IT WILL BE FOR YOU AND FOR THEM FOR FOOD."
22 AND NOAH DID ACCORDING TO ALL THAT GOD COMMANDED HIM--SO HE DID

GENESIS 7:
1 And Yahweh said to Noah, "Come, you and all your household, to the ark, for I have seen you as righteous before me in this generation.
2 Of all the clean beasts, take yourself seven pairs, man and his woman; and of the beasts which are not clean, two, man and his woman.
3 Also of the birds of the heavens seven pairs, male and female, to keep alive seed on the face of the earth.
4 For in seven more days I shall rain on the earth forty days and forty nights, and I shall wipe out all the substance that I have made from upon the face of the earth."
5 And Noah did according to all that Yahweh had commanded him.
6 AND NOAH WAS SIX HUNDRED YEARS OLD, AND THE FLOOD WAS ON THE EARTH.
7 And Noah and his sons and his wife and his sons' wives with him came to the ark from before the waters of the flood.
8 OF THE CLEAN BEASTS AND OF THE BEASTS WHICH WERE NOT CLEAN, AND OF THE BIRDS AND OF ALL THOSE WHICH CREEP UPON THE EARTH,
9 TWO OF EACH CAME TO NOAH TO THE ARK, MALE AND FEMALE, AS GOD HAD COMMANDED NOAH.

10 And seven days later the waters of the flood were on the earth.
11 IN THE SIX HUNDREDTH YEAR OF NOAH'S LIFE, IN THE SECOND MONTH, IN THE SEVENTEENTH DAY OF THE MONTH, ON THIS DAY ALL THE FOUNTAINS OF THE GREAT DEEP WERE BROKEN UP, AND THE WINDOWS OF THE HEAVENS WERE OPENED.
12 And there was rain on the earth, forty days and forty nights.
13 IN THIS VERY DAY, NOAH AND SHEM, HAM, AND JAPHETH, THE SONS OF NOAH, AND NOAH'S WIFE AND HIS SONS' THREE WIVES WITH THEM CAME TO THE ARK,
14 THEY AND ALL THE LIVING THINGS ACCORDING TO THEIR KIND, AND ALL THE BEASTS ACCORDING TO THEIR KIND, AND ALL THE CREEPING THINGS THAT CREEP ON THE EARTH ACCORDING TO THEIR KIND, AND ALL THE BIRDS ACCORDING TO THEIR KIND, AND EVERY WINGED BLED.
15 AND THEY CAME TO NOAH TO THE ARK, TWO OF EACH, OF ALL FLESH IN WHICH IS THE BREATH OF LIFE.
16 AND THOSE WHICH CAME WERE MALE AND FEMALE, SOME OF ALL FLESH CAME, AS GOD HAD COMMANDED HIM.
And Yahweh closed it for him.
17 And the flood was on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and the waters multiplied and raised the ark, and it was lifted from the earth.
18 And the waters grew strong and multiplied greatly on the earth, and the ark went on the surface of the waters.
19 And the waters grew very very strong on the earth, and they covered all the high mountains that are under all the heavens. 20 Fifteen cubits above, the waters grew stronger, and they covered the mountains.
21 AND ALL FLESH, THOSE THAT CREEP ON THE EARTH, THE BIRDS, THE BEASTS, AND THE WILD ANIMALS, AND ALL THE SWARMING THINGS THAT SWARM ON THE EARTH, AND ALL THE HUMANS EXPIRED.
22 Everything that had the breathing spirit of life in its nostrils, everything that was on the dry ground, died.
23 And he wiped out all the substance that was on the face of the earth, from human to beast, to creeping thing, and to bird of the heavens, and they were wiped out from the earth, and only Noah and those who were with him in the ark were left.
24 AND THE WATERS GREW STRONG ON THE EARTH A HUNDRED FIFTY DAYS.
GENESIS 8:
1 AND GOD REMEMBERED NOAH AND ALL THE LIVING, AND ALL THE BEASTS THAT WERE WITH HIM IN THE ARK, AND GOD PASSED A WIND OVER THE EARTH, AND THE WATERS WERE DECREASED.
2 AND THE FOUNTAINS OF THE DEEP AND THE WINDOWS OF THE HEAVENS WERE SHUT,
and the rain was restrained from the heavens. 3 And the waters receded from the earth continually, AND THE
WATERS WERE ABATED AT THE END OF A HUNDRED FIFTY DAYS.
4 AND THE ARK RESTED, IN THE SEVENTH MONTH, IN THE SEVENTEENTH DAY OF THE MONTH, ON THE MOUNTAINS OF ARARAT.
5 AND THE WATERS CONTINUED RECEDING UNTIL THE TENTH MONTH; IN THE TENTH MONTH, ON THE FIRST OF THE MONTH, THE TOPS OF THE MOUNTAINS APPEARED.

6 And it was at the end of forty days, and Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made.
7 AND HE SENT OUT A RAVEN, AND IT WENT BACK AND FORTH UNTIL THE WATERS DRIED UP FROM THE EARTH.
8 And he sent out a dove from him to see whether the waters had eased from the face of the earth.
9 And the dove did not find a resting place for its foot, and it returned to him to the ark, for waters were on the face of the earth, and he put out his hand and took it and brought it to him to the ark.
10 And he waited seven more days, and he again sent out a dove from the ark.
11 And the dove came to him at evening time, and here was an olive leaf torn off in its mouth, and Noah knew that the waters had eased from the earth.
12 And he waited seven more days, and he sent out a dove, and it did not return to him ever again.
13 AND IT WAS IN THE SIX HUNDRED AND FIRST YEAR, IN THE FIRST MONTH, ON THE FIRST OF THE MONTH, THE WATERS DRIED
FROM THE EARTH.
And Noah turned back the covering of the ark and looked, and here the face of the earth had dried.
14 AND IN THE SECOND MONTH, ON THE TWENTY-SEVENTH DAY OF THE MONTH, THE EARTH DRIED UP. 15 AND GOD SPOKE To NOAH, SAYING,
16 "GO OUT FROM THE ARK, YOU AND YOUR WIFE AND YOUR SONS' WIVES WITH YOU.
17 ALL THE LIVING THINGS THAT ARE WITH YOU, OF ALL FLESH, OF THE BIRDS, AND OF THE BEASTS, AND OF ALL THE CREEPING THINGS THAT CREEP ON THE EARTH, THAT GO OUT WITH YOU,SHALL SWARM IN THE EARTH AND BE FRUITFUL AND MULTIPLY IN THE EARTH."
18 AND NOAH AND HIS SONS AND HIS WIFE AND HIS SONS' WIVES WENT OUT.
19 ALL THE LIVING THINGS, ALL THE CREEPING THINGS AND ALL THE BIRDS, ALL THAT CREEP ON THE EARTH, BY THEIR FAMILIES, THEY WENT OUT OF THE ARK.

20 And Noah built an altar to Yahweh, and he took some of each of the clean beasts and of each of the clean birds, and he offered sacrifices on the altar.
21 And Yahweh smelled the pleasant smell, and Yahweh said to his heart, "I shall not again curse the ground on man's account, for the inclination of the human heart is evil from their youth, and I shall not again strike all the living as I have done.
22 All the rest of the days of the earth, seed and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease."
There are some differences between the two texts:
1. The Priestly source has only one pair of animals saved, the J has seven pairs of clean animals and one pair of unclean.
2. P has the flood lasting for a year, J has it lasting for forty days and nights.
3. P has Noah sending out a raven, J has Noah sending out a dove.
4. P is concerned with dates, ages and measurements, J has no such concerns.
So the flood believers do not only have to contend with science making a mockery of a literal interpretation of the Flood, they also have to decide which flood narrative is accurate and then deal with the most incompetent god that has ever been invented.
Brian.

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Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1545 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 146 of 149 (149159)
10-11-2004 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by Rrhain
10-11-2004 5:26 AM


It is hard to write an original story.
I'll go one step further. I don't think there are any new stories. There's a finite number of archetypical stories, maybe less than 20, and that simply won't change until the human condition is fundamentally different.
As it is, though, all humans eat, poop, dream, fuck, and die. Until we add something, or no longer have to do one of those, I don't think the stories will change.
On the other hand it seems like technology changes how certain plots can be resolved. For instance, An Affair to Remember is simply ludicrous in a world of cell phones.
AbE:
It has been a thought of mine to convince a repertory company to do the multi-form versions of a single plot.
Oo! Oo! You could do stage versions of "Yojimbo", "A Fistful of Dollars," and "Last Man Standing" (the Bruce Willis/Christopher Walkhen 30's-era gangster flick). As well as "Star Wars" and "The Hidden Fortress."
This message has been edited by crashfrog, 10-11-2004 04:06 PM

This message is a reply to:
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 555 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 147 of 149 (149160)
10-11-2004 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by Brian
10-11-2004 2:50 PM


You could have edited it a bit to make it easier to read. For example, you could have put an extra space between every number.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by Brian, posted 10-11-2004 2:50 PM Brian has not replied

Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3977
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 148 of 149 (149164)
10-11-2004 5:25 PM


Turning into a big mess - Closing down for at least a while
Topic, take a nap.
Adminnemooseus

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Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by Adminnemooseus, posted 10-21-2004 12:21 AM Adminnemooseus has not replied

Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3977
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 149 of 149 (151506)
10-21-2004 12:21 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by Adminnemooseus
10-11-2004 5:25 PM


New topic has been started on same or simular theme - Will keep this topic closed
Lost track of my "temporary" closure of this topic.
Anyhow, Genesis Creation Stories: Sequence Contradictions? has just been started.
This one stays closed.
Adminnemooseus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Adminnemooseus, posted 10-11-2004 5:25 PM Adminnemooseus has not replied

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