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Author Topic:   Fulfilled Prophecy
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2786 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 251 of 303 (376591)
01-12-2007 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 250 by arachnophilia
01-12-2007 12:29 PM


Re: So is that yes?
Seems to me there is a similar challenge in ancient Greek. Whether the same in modern Greek I do not know.
The term kai (pronounced 'kehh' by the modern school) is called a copulative in that it connects things together, and is variously translated: and, also, even, both, then, so, likewise, and not (in the Authorized Version). My Greek professor, if memory serves, asserted that it can also mean 'but.' In actual reading, all those years ago, I began to suspect that kai to the speaker of Koine Greek was bit like 'uhh,' to the speaker of American English.
How does one translate 'uhh' to a foreign tongue?
Can you think of any instance where 'uhh' might be substituted for vav?

Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by arachnophilia, posted 01-12-2007 12:29 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 252 by arachnophilia, posted 01-12-2007 10:41 PM doctrbill has not replied

doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2786 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 256 of 303 (376654)
01-13-2007 1:29 AM
Reply to: Message 255 by arachnophilia
01-12-2007 11:58 PM


Re: but.
buzsaw writes:
Hebrew is a language of relatively few words,
arachnophilia writes:
relatively few? they've got five common words up there for "but."
When I study Hebrew terminology I am always amazed at how many words one can create by applying different vowel marks. As I understand it, these marks were first applied a thousand years after the Hebrew scripture was written (of which nothing original survives) Yes?
I have seen, in Strong's Concordance, as many as half a dozen supposedly distinct usages with identical primitive spelling. I suspect that the Hebrew language, when first biblified, had far fewer of the few words it seems to have nowadays.
The fact of identical primitive spellings is often exploited by translators who can, if they like, put a different and sometimes equally plausible spin on a word by changing the vowel marks. Such ambivalence, or polyvalence (is that a word?) makes the "solid truth" of the Bible more like a Swiss Cheeze. Some imagination may be required to fill in the gaps.
I exaggerate the problem, of course, for the sake of argument but you know there's a fundamental problem when you have a thousand different Bible thumping organizations selling a thousand different versions of the One and Only "truth." It's about the Word, yes?
Each and every slippery one of them.

Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by arachnophilia, posted 01-12-2007 11:58 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 257 by arachnophilia, posted 01-13-2007 2:00 AM doctrbill has replied

doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2786 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 258 of 303 (376667)
01-13-2007 2:50 AM
Reply to: Message 257 by arachnophilia
01-13-2007 2:00 AM


Re: but.
do you have an example? i mean, a legitimate one, not buz.
From the translators Preface to the Revised Standard Version of the Bible (c. 1952).
quote:
“ . where a more probable and convincing reading can be obtained by assuming different vowels, this has been done. No notes are given in such cases, because the vowel points are less ancient and reliable than the consonants.”
I expect most translators will hesitate to share such things with the reader. Then again: most readers will ignore the preface.
Only after I got out of theology school did I discover that the translators introduction to the King James Version contains clues essential to understanding the book. None of my teachers, none of my professors, no one in that lifetime so much as suggested that it might be interesting; and to this day I have met no believer who has actually read it!
That introduction identifies: the "Most High." And whom do you suppose that is?
Time to read page one.

Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by arachnophilia, posted 01-13-2007 2:00 AM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by arachnophilia, posted 01-13-2007 3:42 AM doctrbill has not replied
 Message 268 by nator, posted 01-13-2007 11:12 PM doctrbill has replied

doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2786 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 269 of 303 (376863)
01-14-2007 1:31 AM
Reply to: Message 268 by nator
01-13-2007 11:12 PM


Re: but.
Hi Scraph,
Long time no see! Very good to hear from you.
All is well as can be for an old fart. Everything OK with you?
I see your name and it brings back fond memories. Let's get together sometime and pick a fight with someone, shall we?
I find your new avatar quite humorous. Has your horse died? Are you beginning to feel that our work here is futile? Neither I hope.
Thank you for the expression of camaraderie.
db

Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by nator, posted 01-13-2007 11:12 PM nator has not replied

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