Fulfilled Prophecy

I'm not a fan of the NIV either. It's notorious for "correcting" contradictions.

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..you will see that Ninevah is not in the events of chapter one.

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You are wrong, it definitely IS in the events of Chapter 1. The NIV may add to the literal text but it does not significantly affect the reading. Nahum 1:1 tells us that the book of Nahum is a prophecy against Nineveh. So Nahum 1:9. and 1:11-14 clearly refer to Nineveh.

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...in the remaining verses of chapter one you see a number of "thee"s, the last of which implies to whom the "thees" refer. It goes in verse 15: "Keep thy feasts, O Judah, perform thy vows; for the wicked one shall no more pass through thee; he is utterly cut off.

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So who is the "they" who are "many" in "full strength" who shall be "cut down" ? Who is it that "devises evil" ? Who shall be sent to the grave ? Not Judah.

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Chapter one, folks, is a segue end time prophecy segued in there to proclaim to Ninevah that they, like the other world enemies of Judah and Jerusalem would eventually all be taken out.

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This reading ignores the fact that muvh of it is written in the present tense (and some even in the past tense !). For instance the references to Bashan, Carmel and Lebanon in 1:3 are ALL in the present tense. This is not prediction - predictions would be in the future tense. [quote] I see the chariots of chapter two as descriptive of something far different than in ancient days.
[/.quote]Well here's the ASV's translation of Nahum 2:3-5

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3 The shield of his mighty men is made red, the valiant men are in scarlet: the chariots flash with steel in the day of his preparation, and the cypress spears are brandished.

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4 The chariots rage in the streets; they rush to and fro in the broad ways: the appearance of them is like torches; they run like the lightnings.

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5 He remembereth his nobles: they stumble in their march; they make haste to the wall thereof, and the mantelet is prepared.

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Shields. Cypress spears. Nobles. Walls. Mantelets. This all fits with an ancient army far better than a modern army. So, come to that, do chariots. Which could be armoured, polished, and move very quickly by the standards of the ancient world.So an ancient army fits the text, while a modern army does not.

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Their ways were not broadways

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You ignore the ASV here - and if you used the KJV you misrepresentedit. The ASV says "streets", the KJV "broad ways" - and why should a great city like Nineveh not hasve some broad streets by the standards of the ancient world ?

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They were only as fast as a horse.

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i.e. they were certainly fast enough.

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For the most part they were not of steel.

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Armoured chariots were certainly not unknown. Or have you forgotten th "iron chariots" mentioned in Judges ?

The most literal translators do not disagree with me. As I have shown, your NIV is not literal to the written manuscript. The text which most of the more literal translators have translated is the text that I keep urging you people to address. You still choose to ignore the evidence in the text as to who the events of chapter one pertain. I am not going to continue down this endless trail of rejection of the written text. You can believe what you wnat. That's your choice and priviledge. It's time for the thread to move on from this stone wall.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

Well, considering that I actually posted all of Chapter 1, it's pretty hard to claim I am ignoring the evidence in the texts.So let's go on, and remember Buz, we will go through EVERY prophecy you bring up the same way, verse by verse in context.Nahum 2 begins with the sub-title Nineveh to Fall so we know that like Chapter 1, Chapter 2 will be about, guess what, Nineveh. Notice in the first line it tells of an attacker advancing against, guess what, Nineveh.Then in the next few verses it talks about the power of the Lord. And what town is being discussed? You guessed it, Nineveh.The rest of the Chapter details the downfall. So like Chapter 1, all of Chapter 2 is talking about Nineveh and no reference to end times.Shall we go on to Chapter 3?Edited by jar, : No reason given.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Modulous, there's a lot of what you, I and others disagree with coming from mainline fundie scholars, including a 6000 year old earth. I disagree with them regarding global warming, dinos, prophecy issues, et al. There's a phrase I like in the scriptures: Romans 3:4; "..... let God be found true, though every man be found a liar."Likely there's others who interpret the chapter in question more literally than the ones you cited. Regardless of what anyone says, the words written in the text say what they say and I'm not going to read Ninevah into 'Judah, Lebanon, Bashan, Carmel, the seas, the mountains, the earth, "the earth is upheaved, at his presence, yea the world and all that dwell therein."(ASV)'

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

None of the scholars read 'earth' as Ninevah nor do they read 'Lebanon' as Ninevah. I don't either. I read it as 'the world'. "the earth is upheaved, at his presence, yea the world and all that dwell therein." seems in line with YHWH, but doesn't sound particularly prophetic, just a statement of fact. Everyone else, the scholars cited included reads it that way and I don't know how it can be read to mean anything else.Its not likely your going to shift how you are reading this chapter and I don't think anyone is going to change how they are reading it. Hence my first sentence. I had difficulty finding anyone who agrees with your version of things that had any amount of authority (ie not random internet nutters, you know -those guys that like big colourful text with lots of underlining and stuff), though I don't doubt they exist. Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

TO ALL: If I don't respond further to this Ninevah segue, don't be surprised unless I see something deemed substantial worthy of response. I'm not conceding anything. I rest my case with the evidence I have posted so as not to stonewall the thread. There are other prophecies which need addressing. This thread is not a Ninevah thread as it appears to be stonewalled into. If someone wishes to do a Ninevah thread, perse for further indepth delving into Nahum, feel free to do so but I'm inclined to move on to other prophecies. I would like to address the return of the Jews in light of Biblical prophecy. I may be going out of town tomorrow and need to do other things tonight. It may be a couple of days or so before I can get back to this.Perhaps in the mean time others will wish to address other prophecy as well as Nahum. That's your perrogative. Thanks to all who've participated thus far, both fundamentalists and non-fundies.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

Fine Buz. Bring up a Prophecy and we will go through it line by line just as we did with Nahum, as we have in the past with Isaiah and others.I assume you don't even dare look at Chapter 3 of Nahum.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Jar, I'll respond with just two very signifant facts.1. The name, Ninevah is not in the Hebrew manuscripts of Nahum 1:1 as your liberal text erroneously implies.2. According to my Hebrew/English Interlinear which supplies the nearest English equivalent to the Hebrew text, verse 8 begins with the significant little word "but as per the Hebrew word of that text. In order to understand at what point Ninevah is being honed in on, one must note that word, "but." Why? Because it implies that the chariots of Ninevah are likely not the same chariots described in verse one.Verse 2, chapter 2 in your own text which you've quoted, the verse preceeding the fast chariot verses states that restoration of the splendor of Jacob is what is being addressed here implying that those non-contemporaneous flashy fast chariots running back and forth on the broadways often crashing are relative to that restoration of Jacob's splendor, something that has not happened until our day in which the splendor of Jacob is indeed coming into focus as prophesied by Jesus and many of the OT prophets in spite of all the armed nations surrounding it having been determined to destroy the tiny nation ever since it's re-emergence in 1948 as a nation.WAKE UP AND SMELL THE BIBLICAL PROPHETIC COFFEE MY FRIENDS! IT'S ACCURATE AND NO OTHER BOOK/SOURCE HAS IT! YOU CAN STAKE YOUR LIFE AND YOUR SOUL UPON IT! BIBLICAL FAITH IS NOT BLIND AS SO MANY OTHERS ARE!

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

I've been so focused on the topic chapters that I haven't digested chapter 3 yet, though I have read it some time ago. I've never argued anywhere that it does not apply to Ninevah. I have included it as likely applicable to Ninevah as I believe it to be without further study. My point relative to the chariots was, as stated, that the segue events of chapter one, inclusive of the first verses of chapter two did not apply to Ninevah perse. They were given to prophesy to Ninevah how God would deal with all enemies of Jacob/Judah/Jews.NOTE that the prophecy of Ninevah beginning in verse 8 of chapter two as well as chapter three is also a future tense prophecy but history attests that those prophecies were fulfilled shortly after the prophecy was given whereas it does not regarding the future restoration of Jacob/Judah and "day of preparation" refering to the preparation of the mesianic kingdom. Ninevah was still intact when the prophecy was given but soon to fall. Jehovah said he will destroy Ninevah's chariots and will destroy, cut off, make you vile, your fortresses shall be shaken and fall (chapter 3:12 et alThe specific Ninevah prophecy beginning in 2:8 did not include the drying up of the rivers, the shaking down of the mountains, the restoration of Judah et al, et al.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

Buz, I have posted Chapters 1 & 2 for all to read. Hopefully you will someday post your best support for your interpretations.Readers can then make up their own minds.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

oh, i'm sure that's possible. here's an example from earlier in this thread:

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Nah 3:2 The noise of a whip, and the noise of the rattling of the wheels, and of the pransing horses, and of the jumping chariots.

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"chariot" here is ‘, or merkavah. it's the modern word for "tank."this one's a really fun one too:

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Gen 17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac:

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sarah is the modern word for "female member of parliament." just for shits and giggles, here's a computer in the bible.

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2Ch 2:14 The son of a woman of the daughters of Dan, and his father was a man of Tyre, skilful to work in gold, and in silver, in brass, in iron, in stone, and in timber, in purple, in blue, and in fine linen, and in crimson; also to grave any manner of graving, and to find out every device which shall be put to him, with thy cunning men, and with the cunning men of my lord David thy father.

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"device" here is ‘, or machshevit. the modern word for "computer" (or sometimes "calculator") is machshev.Edited by arachnophilia, : typos

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1:1? yes it is. the rest of the chapter, no. nahum 2:8 starts, in hebrew:

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v'nineveh

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and ninevah

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translations are still translations, and in biblical, "and" is customary beginning of verses. translations like to change it up so you don't get bored read three million verses in a row that all begin "and..."tell me your point doesn't hang on this? ...assyria was invading judah. yeah, no, try again. because what nahum said actually happened. assyria fell in 612 bc. judah's splendor was restored ---- until 586 bc, which babylon invaded. i know that's not a long time. but it happened. buz, you're the one asleep. nearest everyone else here can tell, nahum's entire message came true.

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not exactly. technically, biblical hebrew has two tenses, perfect and imperfect. "past, present, future" is an artifact of this, and the modern system is different. i'm not too clear on which tenses means what, exactly.but "present tense" is a common way of rendering predictive prophecy.

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Perhaps you would like to show an example where an English translation renders a far future prediction in the present tense.

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1. The name, Ninevah is not in the Hebrew manuscripts of Nahum 1:1 as your liberal text erroneously implies.

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It's in the one I just looked up. It's in every translation. Even the ones you recommend. So I very much doubt that it is not present in your interlinear Bible.

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2. According to my Hebrew/English Interlinear which supplies the nearest English equivalent to the Hebrew text, verse 8 begins with the significant little word "but as per the Hebrew word of that text. In order to understand at what point Ninevah is being honed in on, one must note that word, "but." Why? Because it implies that the chariots of Ninevah are likely not the same chariots described in verse one.

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I suppose that somebody desperately clutching at straws might make such an argument but turning the text into nonsense is hardly a valid method of interpretation. A better reading is that it is comparing the past glories of Nineveh with the predicted destruction.Let me add that Interlinear Bibles often do not concentrate on literal translation - instead simply presenting one translation in parallel with an original-language text. Certainly the "but:" does not appear to correspond to any Hebrew word. Young's Literal Translationuses "And" rather than "but" to start the verse.So it appears that your argument fails on both points. "But" is not a clear and essential part of the Hebrew text and even if it were it could not mean what you say it means.