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Author Topic:   Contradictions: Hint that Genesis 1 and 2 are Allegorical
deerbreh
Member (Idle past 1119 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 40 of 100 (742766)
11-24-2014 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by New Cat's Eye
10-06-2014 9:23 AM


Can you see why someone might be confused when you come in and reply to a post, that is over 10 years old, that is talking about the books of Genesis in the Bible and when you refer to the "original writings" you are not talking about the Bible at all but instead are talking about some other (Sumerian), practically unrelated, ancient civilization?

Well, in fact there is evidence of borrowing of themes from other creation accounts, particularly Mesopotamian, which includes Sumerian. The difference is that the Hebrews modified the accounts to change them from polytheistic to monotheistic. You can choose not to believe that, but it is probably the prevailing hypothesis of the majority of OT scholars. The reason for the differences in the two accounts is that they have different authors/sources - Genesis 1:1–2:3 is Priestly and Genesis 2:4–24 is Jahwistic. The two accounts were actually written in reverse order, i.e., the Jahwist account was written first, and the Priestley account written later.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis_creation_narrative


This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-06-2014 9:23 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-24-2014 2:58 PM deerbreh has not yet responded
 Message 42 by Faith, posted 11-24-2014 3:06 PM deerbreh has responded

  
deerbreh
Member (Idle past 1119 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 45 of 100 (742775)
11-24-2014 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Faith
11-24-2014 3:06 PM


It's not that the others are original, they are simply what was picked up by people in various distorted versions from their ancestors on the ark, but since God inspired the Bible we get the true story there.

Well that is an awkward view, given that the Hebrew version was written well AFTER the other ancient versions. But I suppose it Could Have happened that way, God COULD HAVE dictated the correct version to the HEBREWS and NO ONE ELSE. And Noah COULD HAVE taken baby dinosaurs onto the ark. And it COULD HAVE rained for 40 days and 40 nights over the whole earth at once even though that defies everything we know about physical science. And there COULD HAVE been hyper evolution to generate all the different species from the different kinds on the ark. And there Could Have been hyper laying down of sediments, rock formation and subsequent hyper erosion for the Colorado River to cut out the Grand Canyon. Oh never mind. If you are going to invoke miracles every time you turn around, there is no end to it.


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 Message 42 by Faith, posted 11-24-2014 3:06 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Faith, posted 11-24-2014 4:45 PM deerbreh has responded

  
deerbreh
Member (Idle past 1119 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 47 of 100 (742781)
11-24-2014 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by jar
11-24-2014 4:14 PM


Re: taking pieces parts out
Jesus clearly used a lot of metaphors. No reason he wouldn't have used some from the OT as well as from present experience. He would have not been much of a teacher if he had not.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by jar, posted 11-24-2014 4:14 PM jar has responded

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deerbreh
Member (Idle past 1119 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 51 of 100 (742788)
11-24-2014 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Faith
11-24-2014 4:45 PM


Abraham goes back to 1900 BC

Not conceding your timeline, but it is immaterial anyway. The question is, when were the Genesis creation stories written? Not before the Epic of Gilgamesh. Why not just dictate it to Moses directly? Why risk getting crucial details changed with oral tradition?

I'm not sure if Noah was still living in Abraham's time but his son Shem was.

As I said, if you are going to invoke miracles every time you turn around anything is possible. Newsflash to you. Individuals did not live to be hundreds of years old in the time of the pre-Hebrew culture. If there is anything real about dates given with all of the begats, it has to do with peoples, clans, tribes, etc., not individuals. Abel represents a clan of herdsmen who were wiped out by Cain, a clan of distantly related agriculturalists. Deal with it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Faith, posted 11-24-2014 4:45 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Faith, posted 11-24-2014 5:20 PM deerbreh has responded

  
deerbreh
Member (Idle past 1119 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


(2)
Message 54 of 100 (742848)
11-25-2014 9:12 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Faith
11-24-2014 5:20 PM


Amazing what you think you can know without any source of information except your own feverish brain, and even think you can contradict the source of information we DO have.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Yes it is amazing that you would contradict information from modern science based on stories written during the iron age based on oral accounts of events which occurred during the neolithic and bronze ages. If you really believe that modern humans were created by God, then that includes the brain and power to reason. Why do we have the reasoning power to solve problems with science if we are just supposed to ignore it all in favor of neolithic creation myths? What kind of God would do that?


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